Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[scagghiuni]

There might be less than eight soldiers from the 97 chart still alive, meaning they've might have made at least 20 or so new members since then. And perhaps, since 2014. I know Mafia protocol is to make members 'sparingly' but if an organization is "rebuilding?" And while Buffalo isn't Philadelphia, I'm reminded of their NE Crew that they formed, making a captain and 5-7 soldiers in 1998. There is precedent for it.

it's possibile they made so many members in a few years, canada is not united states and the big amount of organized crime-related murders show it perfectly, it's evident they didn't fear to kill anybody because local laws are very weak

[Wiseguy]

There might be less than eight soldiers from the 97 chart still alive, meaning they've might have made at least 20 or so new members since then. And perhaps, since 2014. I know Mafia protocol is to make members 'sparingly' but if an organization is "rebuilding?" And while Buffalo isn't Philadelphia, I'm reminded of their NE Crew that they formed, making a captain and 5-7 soldiers in 1998. There is precedent for it.

it's possibile they made so many members in a few years, canada is not united states and the big amount of organized crime-related murders show it perfectly, it's evident they didn't fear to kill anybody because local laws are very weak

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

[JCB1977]

There might be less than eight soldiers from the 97 chart still alive, meaning they've might have made at least 20 or so new members since then. And perhaps, since 2014. I know Mafia protocol is to make members 'sparingly' but if an organization is "rebuilding?" And while Buffalo isn't Philadelphia, I'm reminded of their NE Crew that they formed, making a captain and 5-7 soldiers in 1998. There is precedent for it.

it's possibile they made so many members in a few years, canada is not united states and the big amount of organized crime-related murders show it perfectly, it's evident they didn't fear to kill anybody because local laws are very weak

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

While I am a realist as well Wiseguy and I completely understand your rationale, that's what makes this topic so interesting (debatable no doubt). It would be the first time in Mafia history if any of these assertions prove true.

[Angelo Santino]

There might be less than eight soldiers from the 97 chart still alive, meaning they've might have made at least 20 or so new members since then. And perhaps, since 2014. I know Mafia protocol is to make members 'sparingly' but if an organization is "rebuilding?" And while Buffalo isn't Philadelphia, I'm reminded of their NE Crew that they formed, making a captain and 5-7 soldiers in 1998. There is precedent for it.

it's possibile they made so many members in a few years, canada is not united states and the big amount of organized crime-related murders show it perfectly, it's evident they didn't fear to kill anybody because local laws are very weak

Canada seems to be the logical conclusion. All recent activity/information has surfaced from there:
1) New members in Luppino and D. Violi, the invitation for Gius. Violi.
2) The promotion of Rocco Luppino to Hamilton Capo.
3) Elevating D. Violi 3 years (34 mos) to the position of Underboss.

Again, drawing back to Philly in 1989-90, Acting Boss Tony Piccolo, years into his reign as AB, was allowed/decided to promote an Acting Underboss and chose Pasquale Martirano of Newark. This is quite telling for a number of reasons:
1) Newark was the least hit during the Federal onslaught against the Scarfo CF in 87, leaving them probably more active than Philadelphia itself. To quote Scarfo Jr on the phone to his dad prior to being shot: "Merlino's got an entire crew of guys, and I've got Uncle Tony." Something to that effect.

An argument can be made that the Underboss is usually placed in the area of main activity, counterargument being Anthony Megale of the 'Binos who was CT based.

The Bonannos and Buffalo have a long and historic connection, good or bad, so it makes sense that they'd be their main connection in NYC. And given the Bonannos fingerprints in Ontario relatively recently thus raises the suspicions more.

[JCB1977]

Not that it has bearing on Todaro Jr.but that is not unheard of. Chuckle Merlino and Joey Ciancaglini Jr both became UnderBoss less than a year after being made. Same with Frank Martines to Acting UnderBoss.


Pogo

http://www.ipsn.org/laborers/internatio ... newest.htm

ag. JOSEPH A. TODARO, SR., has, at all times material hereto, been a member of the Buffalo LCN family. Since a point in time between 1981 and 1985, Joseph Todaro, Sr., has been the boss of the Buffalo LCN family and dictates the affairs of LIUNA Local 210, despite the fact that he has never held an office or position in the union and has never had an official connection with the union.

ah. JOSEPH A. TODARO. JR., the son of Joseph A. Todaro, Sr., was a business agent of LIUNA Local 210, Buffalo, New York,

37

from approximately 1978 to 1990. At all times material hereto, Joseph A. Todaro, Jr., has been a "made" member of the Buffalo LCN family and, since approximately 1985, has been the underboss of the Buffalo LCN family. He participates in ensuring that the dictates of the Buffalo LCN family are carried out in the actions, decisions and other activities of Local 210. Joseph A. Todaro, Jr., aided, abetted, counseled, commanded, induced and procured the conduct alleged as Racketeering Acts 92 through 94 below.

---
Edit:
I posted this before seeing what NickleCity posted which is essentially the same document. So far I haven't seen anything saying Todaro Jr was made in 85. It's possible, if memory serves Carmen Milano of LA, Chucky Porter of Pittsburgh were made and immediately promoted to Underbosses.

Yes, Chucky Porter was made in 1986 and assumed underboss role when Jo Jo Pecora died in March of 1987.

Here is a memorandum of LIUNA 1058 in Pittsburgh and has info from Ron Fino regarding the relationship between Local 1058 Pittsburgh and Local 210 Buffalo

http://www.ipsn.org/pittsburgh/t2000-08t-03-9-2001.htm

[JCB1977]

On May 21, 2019, the Robert H. Jackson Center presented a Continuing Legal Education program entitled "The Fall of the Buffalo Mafia." The panel included Hon. Salvatore Martoche, Lee Coppola and Tony Bruce. It also included discussion of the real life story portrayed in the movie "Hide in Plain Sight", the Witness Protection programs and prosecuting under RICO statutes. For further information, see www.roberthjackson.org.

There is some very good intel in this 2 hour 25 minute video/panel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvOtVM3Zais

[B.]

There might be less than eight soldiers from the 97 chart still alive, meaning they've might have made at least 20 or so new members since then. And perhaps, since 2014. I know Mafia protocol is to make members 'sparingly' but if an organization is "rebuilding?" And while Buffalo isn't Philadelphia, I'm reminded of their NE Crew that they formed, making a captain and 5-7 soldiers in 1998. There is precedent for it.

it's possibile they made so many members in a few years, canada is not united states and the big amount of organized crime-related murders show it perfectly, it's evident they didn't fear to kill anybody because local laws are very weak

Canada seems to be the logical conclusion. All recent activity/information has surfaced from there:
1) New members in Luppino and D. Violi, the invitation for Gius. Violi.
2) The promotion of Rocco Luppino to Hamilton Capo.
3) Elevating D. Violi 3 years (34 mos) to the position of Underboss.

Again, drawing back to Philly in 1989-90, Acting Boss Tony Piccolo, years into his reign as AB, was allowed/decided to promote an Acting Underboss and chose Pasquale Martirano of Newark. This is quite telling for a number of reasons:
1) Newark was the least hit during the Federal onslaught against the Scarfo CF in 87, leaving them probably more active than Philadelphia itself. To quote Scarfo Jr on the phone to his dad prior to being shot: "Merlino's got an entire crew of guys, and I've got Uncle Tony." Something to that effect.

An argument can be made that the Underboss is usually placed in the area of main activity, counterargument being Anthony Megale of the 'Binos who was CT based.

The Bonannos and Buffalo have a long and historic connection, good or bad, so it makes sense that they'd be their main connection in NYC. And given the Bonannos fingerprints in Ontario relatively recently thus raises the suspicions more.

There was also info that the murdered Cece Luppino had been given the opportunity to be made but turned it down. If so, there was a recruitment drive beyond just inducting seasoned associates like Domenico Violi and they were willing to fill the ranks with lesser-involved blood relatives of members, something the mafia has done continually throughout its history regardless of criminal activity. In Cece's case, he may well have been involved more criminally than we know as evidenced by him being shot to death in his own home.

Out of all the arguments against Violi's taped words I've seen, the one I find the most baffling is that the Buffalo-Ontario organization wouldn't be able to find enough associates to induct ~15 members over an undetermined span of time.

Here's something, too, that is important to remember when we're discussing indictments as a measuring tool: Domenico Violi's case is itself an example of a Buffalo family indictment.

[scagghiuni]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

[Angelo Santino]

On May 21, 2019, the Robert H. Jackson Center presented a Continuing Legal Education program entitled "The Fall of the Buffalo Mafia." The panel included Hon. Salvatore Martoche, Lee Coppola and Tony Bruce. It also included discussion of the real life story portrayed in the movie "Hide in Plain Sight", the Witness Protection programs and prosecuting under RICO statutes. For further information, see www.roberthjackson.org.

There is some very good intel in this 2 hour 25 minute video/panel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvOtVM3Zais

I'll check it out. Grazie mil.

[Pogo The Clown]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.


Pogo

Do you have the link for that? Thank you.

[scagghiuni]

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.


Pogo

in the us border there are only the ones known by fbi, the new members are probably all based in canada, like dom violi, sure there are members we don't know about in hamilton and surrounding areas; the point is that they started to make members and recruitment, they invited cece luppino to be part and he was killed (to refuse an invitation to be part of the mafia could imply the murder), they made violi underboss and rocco luppino captain, we even have an indictment with both made members and associates

[B.]

Given the recruitment of the elder Luppinos, Violi brothers, and the dismissed membership of the younger Luppino, kinship appears to be given a priority in recruitment. The Frangiamore-Todaro leadership looks to have always recruited/promoted heavily through kinship. The other leaders who may not be related to the Frangiamore-Todaro family tree still have ancestry in the same region of Sicily as the Frangiamore-Todaros.

If there has been recent recruitment in the US, I'm sure kinship would play a central role when you consider the role of kinship in both Frangiamore-Todaro history as well as what was going on in Ontario with heavy kin-based recruitment. This has always been central to the existence of mafia groups so it wouldn't be surprising if that's how they've maintained their limited numbers.

"Joe Todaro has an army of kids in Hamilton."

[Pogo The Clown]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.

Do you have the link for that? Thank you.

Correction. It was from a different article. Translated from this French article.


https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/11 ... ppe-drogue

As number two in the organization, some 30 Mafiosi are now under his command, mainly in the United States, but also in Hamilton, says Domenico Violi.

[B.]

It's not just Violi who discussed Buffalo connections on the tapes, but articles say Morena told Violi that John Zancocchio was responsible for informing Buffalo about Morena's induction. There are also apparently documents from the investigation that specifically say that Michael Mancuso was informed that Violi had been made underboss, in addition to the Genovese and Colombo families being told. Hopefully someone will obtain these documents and we can see scans of them.

Something that adds credence to Buffalo being mostly inactive for most of the 2000's is the lack of informants from NY bringing it up. You would think that if any of this was going on back in Massino's era, it would have came out. And if the above is true, this too will eventually come out.

Very good points. You'd think something would have come out if there was a relationship during that time between Buffalo and any of the NYC families who had high-ranking turncoats in the 90s or 2000s. There could be information that we just haven't seen, though. Consider DiLeonardo's story in the Q&A about meeting with LA boss Pete Milano in California. We might not know about that if he never did a Q&A with the board.

I don't think we've gotten a taste of everything Massino has to offer. Some of the info that has come out suggests he knew more about the Montreal landscape than was previously believed, so can't be sure what all he might know elsewhere. Most of what we've been exposed to from his cooperation is the more sensationalist, headline-grabbing stuff about NYC. You have to figure he heard some piece of gossip about Buffalo at some point from the time he became underboss in the mid-80s to the time he cooperated as boss twenty years later.

If Buffalo has managed to maintain relationships with NYC figures, I would guess Florida plays a large role. FL has long been one of the main places for US mafia members to meet other members from around the US and we know the elder Todaro used Florida to meet with other bosses. We have the younger Todaro allegedly using Florida to meet with his underboss, making it likely he's used Florida to conduct other mafia business.

Re. Massino: You know what, that is a very good point and I'm glad you brought it up. Authors and debriefers have also commented on the mobsters' second instinct to hold back information. Not that they're purposely hiding things (in all instances) but one has to be precise and specific when asking questions. I guess it makes sense after spending a lifetime speaking in code and half sentences. So there's a strong possibility that if not directly asked about Buffalo then Massino may not have offered up any info about it.

Some of these interactions are barely a footnote in these guys' lives unless it personally concerns them. There are bits of info that are completely meaningless to the source but it could be a significant piece of a much larger puzzle to researchers, as you know better than anyone.

Reports are filled with references to social situations where an informant or witness is introduced to someone as a member and that's it, a footnote. It's not like someone from NYC is going to go to a restaurant in Florida, be introduced to a member from Buffalo and spend the rest of the night thinking, "Oh my fucking God! That guy's a soldier in the Buffalo family! Holy shit, did you hear that Buddy over at the bar is an amico nos with Buffalo?!" Honestly, these guys are probably more likely to flip out over meeting Meyer Lansky's grandson.