How Many Mafia Families Were There? 20,24,26???

[Wiseguy]

Probably the most powerful family or "syndicate" between Costello's retirement and Operation Pendorf.

That would be the Genovese family, which has been the most powerful family for well over a century.

[johnny_scootch]

Probably the most powerful family or "syndicate" between Costello's retirement and Operation Pendorf.

That would be the Genovese family, which has been the most powerful family for well over a century.

You don't feel like the Gambino family under Carlo eclipsed the Genovese for a period of time?

They were definitely more powerful under D'Aquila if we are going back 100 years.

[Wiseguy]

You don't feel like the Gambino family under Carlo eclipsed the Genovese for a period of time?

No. I realize that's been the conventional thinking for years but it was never the case. One could argue that Gambino was the top boss at his peak. But so was Massino. A lot of the Gambino family supremacy thinking seems to have originated with the idea that the Genovese family suffered from lack of leadership after Vito went to prison. But we know that wasn't so. I think both families have rivaled each other in many ways, and the Gambinos were slightly larger for a period. But the Genovese were always more sophisticated, had more labor union influence, and more of a national presence.

[Confederate]

You don't feel like the Gambino family under Carlo eclipsed the Genovese for a period of time?

No. I realize that's been the conventional thinking for years but it was never the case. One could argue that Gambino was the top boss at his peak. But so was Massino. A lot of the Gambino family supremacy thinking seems to have originated with the idea that the Genovese family suffered from lack of leadership after Vito went to prison. But we know that wasn't so. I think both families have rivaled each other in many ways, and the Gambinos were slightly larger for a period. But the Genovese were always more sophisticated, had more labor union influence, and more of a national presence.

They also have the LEAST amount of informants by a fairly large margin, two of whom were way up in Springfield.

[Lupara]

The Outfit and Genoveses have a lot in common. Some years ago on I believe the old version of this board I started a thread about the Outfit and Genoveses being crime syndicates while the true mafia families were the Gambinos and Bonannos.

[maxiestern11]

You don't feel like the Gambino family under Carlo eclipsed the Genovese for a period of time?

No. I realize that's been the conventional thinking for years but it was never the case. One could argue that Gambino was the top boss at his peak. But so was Massino. A lot of the Gambino family supremacy thinking seems to have originated with the idea that the Genovese family suffered from lack of leadership after Vito went to prison. But we know that wasn't so. I think both families have rivaled each other in many ways, and the Gambinos were slightly larger for a period. But the Genovese were always more sophisticated, had more labor union influence, and more of a national presence.

Arguably it’s been neck and neck over the decades, but I’d have to agree that the Genovese crew (overall) nationally were probably more influential

[cavita]

I always thought that the Madison bunch was a Milwaukee crew headed by a capo named Caputo.

Madison was its own separate family starting in the 1920s. Caputo didn't become the boss of that family until something like the mid 1950s I believe. Here's part of an August 1968 FBI file that stated in part: "A copy of this report has been designated for Chicago Division in view of the control exerted by the Chicago LCN family over the Milwaukee and Madison LCN families and the close ties between FELIX ALDERISIO and FRANK BALISTRIERI."

Because Chicago had control over Milwaukee it only made sense that they had the same control over Madison, though I've never seen any FBI files yet mentioning Chicago guys involved in anything relating to Madison OC.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Probably the most powerful family or "syndicate" between Costello's retirement and Operation Pendorf.

That would be the Genovese family, which has been the most powerful family for well over a century.

Between Costello's retirement and the 80s? I'm not sure about that. Chicago was a massive empire in that time. The Genovese was essentially in a "rebuilding" period after Costello. Gambino was the man in NY. Powerful but did the Gambinos have the rackets Chicago did during the 60's and 70s? Luccheses were always solid in this time but also relatively low key.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

The Outfit and Genoveses have a lot in common. Some years ago on I believe the old version of this board I started a thread about the Outfit and Genoveses being crime syndicates while the true mafia families were the Gambinos and Bonannos.

Didn't the Genoveses take the street boss idea from Chicago? Seem to have read that somewhere.

[Wiseguy]

Between Costello's retirement and the 80s? I'm not sure about that. Chicago was a massive empire in that time. The Genovese was essentially in a "rebuilding" period after Costello. Gambino was the man in NY. Powerful but did the Gambinos have the rackets Chicago did during the 60's and 70s? Luccheses were always solid in this time but also relatively low key.

It's obvious you're coming from a position of ignorance on this, as usual.


"You keep hearing all this crap about Gotti being the boss of the bosses, but the Genovese have always been the country's most powerful family."
- Richard Ross, FBI (1990)

"I've always felt the Genovese family was the more powerful of the two. It has been able to operate in the shadows while the Gambino family grabbed the attention of law enforcement and the public."
- Ronad Goldstock, Director of New York State Organized Crime Task Force (1992)

"I have always considered the Genovese Family to be the most powerful LCN family in the United States."
- Al D'Arco, Lucchese LCN family Acting Boss (1994)

"The Genovese family has probably been the most powerful La Cosa Nostra family of the last hundred years."
- Ask Andy, Gangland News (1996)

"The Genovese family, I think, in many ways was the most powerful family in the country in terms of it's domination and exploitation of labor unions and legitimate businesses."
- Michael Chertoff, former NY federal prosecutor (2000)

[Grouchy Sinatra]

It's hard to say what law enforcement means because a lot of their quotes are propaganda to promote prosecution of certain people. Chicago had a pretty large empire in the 60s and 70s that I don't believe any of the NY families had. Vegas notably, which mostly belonged to Chicago after Howard Hughes was out.

[Antiliar]

Was Joe Aiello's family separate from the Genna Family? When did the non-Capone Chicago families start?

Finally, was Chicago Heights its own family?

I think 26 is the correct number but if you want to be correct, you have to include the defuncts as well. Newark. Birmingham. San Diego. I too have read that San Diego fell apart after Prohibition but did once exist. San Diego would eventually become a crew under LA.

The Gennas weren't a separate crime family. They were part of the Chicago Mafia, as was Joe Aiello.

Yes, Chicago Heights was a Mafia crime family that was wiped out by the local Calabrian Camorra, and the Camorra group became a crew of Capone's Outfit. Gary, Indiana, was also an early Mafia Family that was later absorbed by the Outfit.

[Confederate]

Was Joe Aiello's family separate from the Genna Family? When did the non-Capone Chicago families start?

Finally, was Chicago Heights its own family?

I think 26 is the correct number but if you want to be correct, you have to include the defuncts as well. Newark. Birmingham. San Diego. I too have read that San Diego fell apart after Prohibition but did once exist. San Diego would eventually become a crew under LA.

The Gennas weren't a separate crime family. They were part of the Chicago Mafia, as was Joe Aiello.

Yes, Chicago Heights was a Mafia crime family that was wiped out by the local Calabrian Camorra, and the Camorra group became a crew of Capone's Outfit. Gary, Indiana, was also an early Mafia Family that was later absorbed by the Outfit.

I think you meant to say the local "Neapolitan" Camorra. No?

[Cheech]

another good one

[cavita]

another good one

The 1967 Life magazine insert. Nice one!