Rochester Family Tidbits Circa 1970s

[Angelo Santino]

If they didn't have the OK from the Commission to split off than it most likely means they did it against the wishes of the Buffalo leadership as well (hard to see them willingly letting such a large and potentially profitable crew just split off like that). So if the Buffalo leadership was powerless to stop the Rochester Crew from splitting off than they would have been equally powerless to stop other members from joining them. I can see other members taking advantage of the turmoil to break away, either disaffected by Maggadino's greed and faltering leadership, the growing factionalism in Buffalo, the increasing LE pressure in Buffalo, or just the opportunity to start fresh with new group. I'm sure that is how the Genovese/Lucchese and Gambino/Colombo splits occurred as well.


Pogo

The Buffalo family was experiencing factionalism between Pieri and Magaddino groups around the time that Rochester was gaining independence, like you said, but I've never seen anything to suggest other Buffalo members joined the Rochester group. If anything the fact that Rochester was not sanctioned by the Commission would make it less likely that Buffalo members would jump ship. Utica, further away from Buffalo than Rochester, appears to have stayed under the Buffalo banner.

I agree that Rochester not having Commission approval likely translates to not having Buffalo's approval either, but without some kind of evidence there is no way I can make a jump in logic that the unsanctioned Rochester group stole away Buffalo members.

Do you have any info that would back this theory up or is it just based on the idea that Buffalo was weak?

Wasn't most of the Rochester crew in and around the city? The Buffalo Family was branched out all over the state.

[B.]

If they didn't have the OK from the Commission to split off than it most likely means they did it against the wishes of the Buffalo leadership as well (hard to see them willingly letting such a large and potentially profitable crew just split off like that). So if the Buffalo leadership was powerless to stop the Rochester Crew from splitting off than they would have been equally powerless to stop other members from joining them. I can see other members taking advantage of the turmoil to break away, either disaffected by Maggadino's greed and faltering leadership, the growing factionalism in Buffalo, the increasing LE pressure in Buffalo, or just the opportunity to start fresh with new group. I'm sure that is how the Genovese/Lucchese and Gambino/Colombo splits occurred as well.


Pogo

The Buffalo family was experiencing factionalism between Pieri and Magaddino groups around the time that Rochester was gaining independence, like you said, but I've never seen anything to suggest other Buffalo members joined the Rochester group. If anything the fact that Rochester was not sanctioned by the Commission would make it less likely that Buffalo members would jump ship. Utica, further away from Buffalo than Rochester, appears to have stayed under the Buffalo banner.

I agree that Rochester not having Commission approval likely translates to not having Buffalo's approval either, but without some kind of evidence there is no way I can make a jump in logic that the unsanctioned Rochester group stole away Buffalo members.

Do you have any info that would back this theory up or is it just based on the idea that Buffalo was weak?

Wasn't most of the Rochester crew in and around the city? The Buffalo Family was branched out all over the state.

Yeah, exactly. Maybe Pogo has some info from one of the Rochester informants who said they stole Buffalo members away from the other non-Rochester territories, but unless there is something concrete about that I don't see how or why it would have played out that way. It would be of more value to a Buffalo member to stay affiliated with the Commission sanctioned group, which is why Joe Bonanno lost the majority of support within his family when the Commission decided they no longer recognized him less than a decade before this Buffalo/Rochester situation played out.

[Pogo The Clown]

No evidence just a theory based on how big Rochester got. By the early 1970s Rochester had 40-45 made members. Buffalo at its peak was only 120 members and were likely less than that by 1968. Hard to see all those Rochester members just coming from the Rochester Crew (I believe Buffalo had like 8 or 9 crews during this period) even if they inducted a lot of their associates in a hurry. Seems likely that other members outside of the immediate crew joined them to get those numbers that high that quick.


Pogo

[B.]

No evidence just a theory based on how big Rochester got. By the early 1970s Rochester had 40-45 made members. Buffalo at its peak was only 120 members and were likely less tha that by 1968. Hard to see all those Rochester members just coming from the Rochester Crew (I believe Buffalo had like 8 or 9 crews during this period) even if they inducted a lot of their associates in a hurry. Seems likely that other members outside of the immediate crew joined them to get those numbers that highs hat quick.


Pogo

Yeah, it does seem strange that they'd be able to fill up that many member slots in Rochester in such a short amount of time, but unless there were confirmed Rochester members operating in other traditional Buffalo territories or we discover something that suggests other known Buffalo members joined them it seems unlikely based on protocol and the geography of the Rochester group.

Rochester did have plenty of Italians and mob associates, so equally possible they just did a bunch of ceremonies to quickly build the family up. If they were willing to have 35 members attend a making ceremony, they may have also held ceremonies where large groups were inducted. We have examples of large ceremonies in other cities, including Philadelphia and NYC.

The Valentis had strong connections to other cities outside of Buffalo territory, so I'd be curious if they may have brought any associates over from Pittsburgh or elsewhere.

[Angelo Santino]

In my early research, Rochester was quite an active city as far back as the 1900's, it was a city NYC mafiosi used to hide out in, it was also a city that people stopped to when traveling between NYC and Buffalo. It's one of those cities where there was enough there for there to be a group, but for reasons I can't explain there wasn't one. Same goes for San Jose in the 1900's, plenty of activity there among Italians yet a Family didn't form there until the 1940's allegedly.

[B.]

One thing to consider too is that if Buffalo had 125 members at their peak it would put them roughly around the same size as the Colombo and Lucchese families but it looks like Buffalo didn't have as many captains as those families. Most if not all of Buffalo's captains look to have been based on different outposts/locations in the family's territory, while the NYC family's members were concentrated in a smaller area and captains weren't based as much on distinct territory (of course there were divisions based on borough+neighborhood, but that is still a smaller geographic area than the sprawling Magaddino family).

With the above in mind, the Buffalo family's crews were probably quite large. It appears they had separate captains over Niagara Falls, Buffalo, Utica/Syracuse (though possible Syracuse became its own crew under DeStefano at one point), Rochester, Hamilton/Toronto, and possibly Erie. Not sure if Youngstown was ever under a captain but either way doubtful they had more than a handful of members there. We can guess that the highest concentration of membership was in Buffalo / NF, though because we're missing a lot of names we can't say for certain how everything was divided.

There were 14 confirmed members of the Utica regime, including the Falcone brothers, and a number of suspected members, some more likely than others, which suggests that the Utica crew may have had 20+ members at its peak. It's not unreasonable to think Rochester was equal or greater in size, which would account for a large chunk of the 40+ members identified by the turncoat. I definitely agree with Pogo that losing Rochester was a major blow to the total Magaddino family membership no matter what all of the details were.

[JCB1977]

James “Westfield Jimmy” Salamone was based out of Westfield, NY just west of Buffalo and also oversaw rackets in Erie, PA. Erie, PA and Westfield, NY were very close, only about 30 miles apart. Salamone and John LaRocca were longtime friends and knew each other When LaRocca was living in Jamestown running a gas station and running illegal booze from Canada. I believe he was made in Buffalo but I am not 100% sure if he was a captain. Regardless, he was the key gambling figure in that area for the better part of four decades for Buffalo. He was certainly tied to the top members in Buffalo and had a direct relationship with Maggadino.

The boss in Erie Pennsylvania for many years was Serafino “Sam” Romeo, he was described in an FBI report as an old hatchet man for the organization and he was first cousins with Paul and Mike Romeo in Youngstown, he came from Casignana, Reggio Calabria. There is not a whole lot of information on him as he stayed under the radar for many years. Salamone took over Erie when Serafino Romeo was semi-retired. I have also read many reports from confidential informants that when Westfield Jimmy Took over Erie, he was directly working with the LaRocca family.

[JCB1977]

The only representation from Buffalo in the Youngstown area from my knowledge was Joe DiCarlo and his brother in law Sam Pieri. However, Joe DiCarlo came to Youngstown in an attempt to take over all the rackets because Buffalo stripped him of his duties and he left town. Dominic Mallamo and Paul Romeo with the help of Tony Milano and Tony Ripepi ensured DiCarlo was carefully watched... once pressure was applied he left town right away.

[JCB1977]

The Bufalino crime family also had members that were residing in upstate NY and ran their operations in certain areas of NY. Endicott, Binghamton etc. I wonder if they had any crossover with Rochester or territorial disputes?

[JCB1977]

https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?do ... 3&tab=page

[Nepa31]

The Bufalino crime family also had members that were residing in upstate NY and ran their operations in certain areas of NY. Endicott, Binghamton etc. I wonder if they had any crossover with Rochester or territorial disputes?

From what I’ve read and heard from some old timers in that area it was a constant intermingling of Buffalo guys, Rochester guys and Bufalino guys. Most of the disputes were the Rochester guys fighting amongst themselves. Rarely was there ever a Buffalo vs Bufalino family issue. The 2 of them damn near operated as one family sometimes.

[B.]

Lennert's Rochester research is excellent and documented here:
http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.c ... -list.html

Looked into early names associated with Rochester mafia and "black hand" activities and like in Buffalo / NF we have overwhelming foundations in the same areas of Caltanissetta and Enna (Valguernera), but there is an especially strong early presence from the Grotte area of Agrigento.

I wasn't aware how strong the Sicilian foundations were for the Rochester group and assumed, because of some of the later mainland names involved with the group, that it was more an extension of mainland underworld activity. Not the case at all and the available evidence makes makes it clear there was Sicilian mafia-type activity from the turn of the century and that many of these Sicilians were from the same part of Sicily as the early Buffalo mafia members.

From Lennert's extensive list of names, even if most of the early figures weren't members it's clear Rochester could have supported a very large crew in its heyday long before it split off. I highly recommend Lennert's research to anyone interested in this.

[JCB1977]

Lennert's Rochester research is excellent and documented here:
http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.c ... -list.html

Looked into early names associated with Rochester mafia and "black hand" activities and like in Buffalo / NF we have overwhelming foundations in the same areas of Caltanissetta and Enna (Valguernera), but there is an especially strong early presence from the Grotte area of Agrigento.

I wasn't aware how strong the Sicilian foundations were for the Rochester group and assumed, because of some of the later mainland names involved with the group, that it was more an extension of mainland underworld activity. Not the case at all and the available evidence makes makes it clear there was Sicilian mafia-type activity from the turn of the century and that many of these Sicilians were from the same part of Sicily as the early Buffalo mafia members.

From Lennert's extensive list of names, even if most of the early figures weren't members it's clear Rochester could have supported a very large crew in its heyday long before it split off. I highly recommend Lennert's research to anyone interested in this.

Lennert is excellent.