The future of LCN

[Pogo The Clown]

It is an accurate statement. Take Philly for example. They had 40 something active members when Scarfo was running things but by 2002 they were down to 12 active members. So yeah by 2002 NY was the only place where the mob was still going strong and still operating anywhere close to what they once were.


Pogo

[Stroccos]

“Its becoming like the communist party there are more defectors then members “ jack white

[JCB1977]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

"I think law enforcement has done a lot of damage to the Mafia. There are very few families that are strong anymore. New York is about the only place where there's a Mafia now." (Charles Maurer, FBI, 2002)

I agree wholeheartedly. And when I think of NY, I am referring to Gambino/Genovese...all 3 other families are limping along at best.

[JCB1977]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

"I think law enforcement has done a lot of damage to the Mafia. There are very few families that are strong anymore. New York is about the only place where there's a Mafia now." (Charles Maurer, FBI, 2002)

LMAO

For the life of me Moscone, I can't understand why you are laughing at the statement. LE has ripped apart Chicago, New England, NJ and ALL smaller size families with imprisonment of key members. Philly has been reduced to a gang, KC has remnants and Buffalo and Detroit aren't even close to where their organizations once were. Whacking a guy has become a thing of the past because of LE heat while in Canada. it's like the 1950's over there. Nothing close to that in the U.S. That's a fact.

[Moscone65]

You don’t have to tell me about Canada, I see it on my local news. You know based on what this fbi guy and the rest of you are saying, the fbi should just declare the whole lcn extinct, a thing of the past. Whatever’s left is a glorified crew based on the way you guys talk about it. If that’s what you wanna think fine, but I’ll be laughing my ass of in the meantime. Enjoy!

[Wiseguy]

You don’t have to tell me about Canada, I see it on my local news. You know based on what this fbi guy and the rest of you are saying, the fbi should just declare the whole lcn extinct, a thing of the past. Whatever’s left is a glorified crew based on the way you guys talk about it. If that’s what you wanna think fine, but I’ll be laughing my ass of in the meantime. Enjoy!

"The New York families are still a problem but in most of the country the Cosa Nostra is no longer a priority for law enforcement." (Jeffrey Sallet, FBI, 2016)

[Confederate]

How long do you think the Chicago Outfit/Italian-American Organized Crime will be around in Chicago?

Chicago will cease to be a structured, viable family with money flowing up to a hierarchy some time over the next decade.

Remnants will still persist some time after that, but I am pretty convinced the family is on the way out.

The average member is like 75 and they aren't bringing in new people as far as I know. They're toast.

The greater Chicago metro area has almost 4 million more people than Philly. And the Outfit at its height was definitely stronger than Philly at its height. It’s kinda wild that Philly will outlast the Outfit.

It IS wild, but the reason Philly will outlast Chicago as a Mafia Family is because DiFronzo etc. were a lot smarter than Merlino etc. and they backed away and simply let Chicago die a slow death of attrition. However, that being said, some of the relatives of former Chicago Guys will do better in life in legitimate businesses than relatives of Philly guys IMO. Chicago was smarter in how they slowly exited from something that had no future.

[JCB1977]

How long do you think the Chicago Outfit/Italian-American Organized Crime will be around in Chicago?

Chicago will cease to be a structured, viable family with money flowing up to a hierarchy some time over the next decade.

Remnants will still persist some time after that, but I am pretty convinced the family is on the way out.

The average member is like 75 and they aren't bringing in new people as far as I know. They're toast.

The greater Chicago metro area has almost 4 million more people than Philly. And the Outfit at its height was definitely stronger than Philly at its height. It’s kinda wild that Philly will outlast the Outfit.

It IS wild, but the reason Philly will outlast Chicago as a Mafia Family is because DiFronzo etc. were a lot smarter than Merlino etc. and they backed away and simply let Chicago die a slow death of attrition. However, that being said, some of the relatives of former Chicago Guys will do better in life in legitimate businesses than relatives of Philly guys IMO. Chicago was smarter in how they slowly exited from something that had no future.

Joey the Jockey would have a hard time working the cash register at a department store. He's never had a legitimate enterprise nor would he be able to start one, otherwise he would have done it by now. He's got balls...but his brains are lacking. He's broke half the time which demonstrates that he is terrible with money which tells a whole other story.

[eboli]

It IS wild, but the reason Philly will outlast Chicago as a Mafia Family is because DiFronzo etc. were a lot smarter than Merlino etc. and they backed away and simply let Chicago die a slow death of attrition. However, that being said, some of the relatives of former Chicago Guys will do better in life in legitimate businesses than relatives of Philly guys IMO. Chicago was smarter in how they slowly exited from something that had no future.

You're right. A lot of old money in Chicago. With Philly it looks like a lot of them are brokesters or street hustlers.

[Pogo The Clown]

Philly also had a larger recruiting pool with the Italain enclave that is South Philly and the number of Italians in the Jersey area where they operate. Ultimately without these large pockets of Italian areas LCN cannot survive. You have that in South Philly, the North End of Boston, Elizabeth and the surrounding areas in Jersey, etc that has allowed these families to hang on longer. Chicago has pretty much lost that.


That ability to replenish with new blood is what has allowed Philly to survive despite all the prosecutions and turmoil. From a 2004 report.

the Bruno group warrants continued law enforcement scrutiny because, while down, it is far from out. Moreover, the task of attracting “new blood” into the group’s depleted ranks apparently presents no obstacle. Information gathered through law enforcement surveillance has clearly established that there is no shortage of mob “wannabes” circulating on the fringes of this group. Much will depend, of course, on whether those at the top can stay out of jail long enough to make their shaken enterprise thrive again.

https://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf

[JCB1977]

Philly also had a larger recruiting pool with the Italain enclave that is South Philly and the number of Italians in the Jersey area where they operate. Ultimately without these large pockets of Italian areas LCN cannot survive. You have that in South Philly, the North End of Boston, Elizabeth and the surrounding areas in Jersey, etc that has allowed these families to hang on longer. Chicago has pretty much lost that.


That ability to replenish with new blood is what has allowed Philly to survive despite all the prosecutions and turmoil. From a 2004 report.

the Bruno group warrants continued law enforcement scrutiny because, while down, it is far from out. Moreover, the task of attracting “new blood” into the group’s depleted ranks apparently presents no obstacle. Information gathered through law enforcement surveillance has clearly established that there is no shortage of mob “wannabes” circulating on the fringes of this group. Much will depend, of course, on whether those at the top can stay out of jail long enough to make their shaken enterprise thrive again.

https://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf

By the 1920's, the three largest italian populations were : NY, Chicago, Pittsburgh

[Pogo The Clown]

The top 4 now are NYC, Philly, Chicago and Boston. Though in Chicago they are far smaller proportion of the population than Philly and Boston. Providence seems to have one of the highest proportions of Italians. No coincidence that is where the last remaining recognized families are located.


Also interesting that despite such a large Italain population Pittsburgh never had a large family.


Pogo

[Niagarafalls]

I don’t know if I’d say Merlino’s brain power is lacking. At least his LCN smarts. He should be serving life, but is getting out soon. I guess you could argue he’s doing life on the installment plan but the guy knows the LCN moves.

[JCB1977]

The top 4 now are NYC, Philly, Chicago and Boston. Though in Chicago they are far smaller proportion of the population than Philly and Boston. Providence seems to have one of the highest proportions of Italians. No coincidence that is where the last remaining recognized families are located.


Also interesting that despite such a large Italain population Pittsburgh never had a large family.


Pogo

Pittsburgh was still ranked third in the 1950s and from the early 1900s through the 1920s western Pennsylvania was one of the largest populations of the black hand society in the country. Detective John Chrin of the Pennsylvania State police said that in the 1950s, there were still about 200 members of the old black hand society residing in Western PA. Boston has an extremely small Italian population concentrated in one section of the town because most of Massachusetts is Irish. Providence has the largest Italian population per capita but Providence is extremely small. Pittsburgh is ranked #5 in largest Italian populations in the U.S in 2019. And to be clear, immigration just isn’t happening on a large scale any longer so most of the Italians today are third and fourth generation Italian Americans who can get into their own crime and not have to pay anybody except in NY

[JCB1977]

I don’t know if I’d say Merlino’s brain power is lacking. At least his LCN smarts. He should be serving life, but is getting out soon. I guess you could argue he’s doing life on the installment plan but the guy knows the LCN moves.

I say his brains are lacking because he has never been into sophisticated racketeering crimes that actually take business acumen. He has a set of balls that are bigger than most and he has proven to be stand up and I will give him that, but he essentially oversees a group of bookies and some loan sharks concentrated in a very small section of Philadelphia. A far cry from the dons of the past