The future of LCN

[Amershire_Ed]

On the Tony Ducks wiretap, one of the conversations he was having was about him being upset that some made guys, in his family and others, didn’t want “the life” for their sons. And he was basically saying, “What does that say about this thing if we don’t want our own sons involved? How honorable can the life be if we wouldn’t want it for our own sons?”

And to me—that issue—is the single biggest impediment to the future and viability of LCN in the US. Even moreso than the enhanced surveillance techniques, and longer prison sentences, and guys flipping, is the fact that the recruiting pool seems to have gone from Olympic size to kiddie.

And if that actually is the case, I think they will have to do 1 of 2 things. The first, which will not happen, would be to expand the talent pool to include non Italians. Maybe not as made men, but some sort of status above associate. But again, that’s not likely. The second option would be to make a major shift to mostly white collar type crime, in hopes that more guys would be willing to get involved. Less dangerous, typically shorter prison sentences. More compatible with the 21st century technology.

I guess my question is, if families are faced with a smaller and smaller recruiting pool, what do they do? Maybe it’s not quite as applicable to the New York families because the infrastructure and ecosystem of NYC will always leave some meat on the bone for traditional organized crime activities. And I suppose some of the 5 families could merge at some point if it got so bad. But like Philly, Chicago, and New England—what do they do?

[Wiseguy]

On the Tony Ducks wiretap, one of the conversations he was having was about him being upset that some made guys, in his family and others, didn’t want “the life” for their sons. And he was basically saying, “What does that say about this thing if we don’t want our own sons involved? How honorable can the life be if we wouldn’t want it for our own sons?”

And to me—that issue—is the single biggest impediment to the future and viability of LCN in the US. Even moreso than the enhanced surveillance techniques, and longer prison sentences, and guys flipping, is the fact that the recruiting pool seems to have gone from Olympic size to kiddie.

And if that actually is the case, I think they will have to do 1 of 2 things. The first, which will not happen, would be to expand the talent pool to include non Italians. Maybe not as made men, but some sort of status above associate. But again, that’s not likely. The second option would be to make a major shift to mostly white collar type crime, in hopes that more guys would be willing to get involved. Less dangerous, typically shorter prison sentences. More compatible with the 21st century technology.

I guess my question is, if families are faced with a smaller and smaller recruiting pool, what do they do? Maybe it’s not quite as applicable to the New York families because the infrastructure and ecosystem of NYC will always leave some meat on the bone for traditional organized crime activities. And I suppose some of the 5 families could merge at some point if it got so bad. But like Philly, Chicago, and New England—what do they do?

I would think shifting to mostly white collar crime would only reduce their rackets and shrink the manpower pool even more. Some have the inclination, knowledge, and resources for white collar crime while others don't.

And I'm really only referring to the New York families. They have had significant involvement in various white collar rackets over the years. The few other families left, not so much. Chicago, somewhat, I suppose. But those non-New York families will likely stick with what they know as attrition takes its course.

[Villain]

On the Tony Ducks wiretap, one of the conversations he was having was about him being upset that some made guys, in his family and others, didn’t want “the life” for their sons. And he was basically saying, “What does that say about this thing if we don’t want our own sons involved? How honorable can the life be if we wouldn’t want it for our own sons?”

And to me—that issue—is the single biggest impediment to the future and viability of LCN in the US. Even moreso than the enhanced surveillance techniques, and longer prison sentences, and guys flipping, is the fact that the recruiting pool seems to have gone from Olympic size to kiddie.

And if that actually is the case, I think they will have to do 1 of 2 things. The first, which will not happen, would be to expand the talent pool to include non Italians. Maybe not as made men, but some sort of status above associate. But again, that’s not likely. The second option would be to make a major shift to mostly white collar type crime, in hopes that more guys would be willing to get involved. Less dangerous, typically shorter prison sentences. More compatible with the 21st century technology.

I guess my question is, if families are faced with a smaller and smaller recruiting pool, what do they do? Maybe it’s not quite as applicable to the New York families because the infrastructure and ecosystem of NYC will always leave some meat on the bone for traditional organized crime activities. And I suppose some of the 5 families could merge at some point if it got so bad. But like Philly, Chicago, and New England—what do they do?

I would think shifting to mostly white collar crime would only reduce their rackets and shrink the manpower pool even more. Some have the inclination, knowledge, and resources for white collar crime while others don't.

And I'm really only referring to the New York families. They have had significant involvement in various white collar rackets over the years. The few other families left, not so much. Chicago, somewhat, I suppose. But those non-New York families will likely stick with what they know as attrition takes its course.

I agree. Chicago shifted to white collar crime and they very rarely made any of their sons or relatives but instead they gave them the control over numerous legitimate enterprises. So we cannot say anything regarding Chicago's current illegal activities until some new info comes out or at least some big case

[maxiestern11]

On the Tony Ducks wiretap, one of the conversations he was having was about him being upset that some made guys, in his family and others, didn’t want “the life” for their sons. And he was basically saying, “What does that say about this thing if we don’t want our own sons involved? How honorable can the life be if we wouldn’t want it for our own sons?”

And to me—that issue—is the single biggest impediment to the future and viability of LCN in the US. Even moreso than the enhanced surveillance techniques, and longer prison sentences, and guys flipping, is the fact that the recruiting pool seems to have gone from Olympic size to kiddie.

And if that actually is the case, I think they will have to do 1 of 2 things. The first, which will not happen, would be to expand the talent pool to include non Italians. Maybe not as made men, but some sort of status above associate. But again, that’s not likely. The second option would be to make a major shift to mostly white collar type crime, in hopes that more guys would be willing to get involved. Less dangerous, typically shorter prison sentences. More compatible with the 21st century technology.

I guess my question is, if families are faced with a smaller and smaller recruiting pool, what do they do? Maybe it’s not quite as applicable to the New York families because the infrastructure and ecosystem of NYC will always leave some meat on the bone for traditional organized crime activities. And I suppose some of the 5 families could merge at some point if it got so bad. But like Philly, Chicago, and New England—what do they do?

I very much agree..... any “sharp” and really “intelligent” mafiosi DO NOT want this for their children. Today especially, only “caffone” or “gavone” would heap this life on the kids.....really think about it, the potential killings, daily treachery, informants around every corner, Rico laws and draconian penalties, vastly reduced racket opportunities, hierarchy “politics” and the bullshit that comes with it...... if they love their children, as most do with a passion, by giving them a good education, and allowing them to utilize the money “pop” has accumulated (hopefully) during his racket career to invest into, or maybe take over, businesses their father built up over the years, the kids are in perfect position!

Why screw it up by throwing the kids “into the fire” and risking everything? The answer is simple!.... Most don’t bring them in....If they do, it’s as a loose “associate”, not under the “hammer” of the boss, Underboss or formal structure. The listen to their “dad” only, and are NOT subject to have to report, or go kill a guy because the “boss” says so!
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Eventually, only ignorant low-end lost street guys will “aspire” to this life! Weakening it and making it less and less “attractive” to anybody with half a brain. THAT will become the Italian mobs “death kneel” as I see it happening now. I think CN will always exist in some form, albeit weakened state, but the days of sharp astute guys like the Luciano’s, Jimmy Blue Eyes Alo’s, Ianniello’s, Profaci’s are all over!....... these were visionary’s, the likes of which I don’t believe are around today!

Those guys go to college and get professional jobs today, or take the reins of Industries their father’s and grandfathers started

[slimshady_007]

There’s always gunna be a young naive wannabes that the mob can recruit. Recent young associates still committed violence to gain respect and the lure of lcn still attracts a lot of people. Imo the mob in nyc will never die off completely.

[Nicholas]

I would think shifting to mostly white collar crime would only reduce their rackets and shrink the manpower pool even more. Some have the inclination, knowledge, and resources for white collar crime while others don't.

And I'm really only referring to the New York families. They have had significant involvement in various white collar rackets over the years. The few other families left, not so much. Chicago, somewhat, I suppose. But those non-New York families will likely stick with what they know as attrition takes its course.

I've been fascinated by the modern era of the Chicago Outfit, though the nail in the coffin for the Chicago Outfit happened 20-30 years ago - when blue collar, White, street criminals had no interest in associating with it. How long do you think the Chicago Outfit/Italian-American Organized Crime will be around in Chicago?

[Ivan]

How long do you think the Chicago Outfit/Italian-American Organized Crime will be around in Chicago?

Chicago will cease to be a structured, viable family with money flowing up to a hierarchy some time over the next decade.

Remnants will still persist some time after that, but I am pretty convinced the family is on the way out.

The average member is like 75 and they aren't bringing in new people as far as I know. They're toast.

[Amershire_Ed]

How long do you think the Chicago Outfit/Italian-American Organized Crime will be around in Chicago?

Chicago will cease to be a structured, viable family with money flowing up to a hierarchy some time over the next decade.

Remnants will still persist some time after that, but I am pretty convinced the family is on the way out.

The average member is like 75 and they aren't bringing in new people as far as I know. They're toast.

The greater Chicago metro area has almost 4 million more people than Philly. And the Outfit at its height was definitely stronger than Philly at its height. It’s kinda wild that Philly will outlast the Outfit.

[JCB1977]

There’s always gunna be a young naive wannabes that the mob can recruit. Recent young associates still committed violence to gain respect and the lure of lcn still attracts a lot of people. Imo the mob in nyc will never die off completely.

They'll be the last to die off for sure but eventually, they will cease to exist "as they once did." They've lost significant racket revenue and much of their political protection. No major bid rigging, infiltration of major unions, construction rackets, waste hauling (especially in NYC). They're still making money but not nearly to the degree that they once did. Not even close. Only young morons would join LCN and flip once they are facing 10+ years in the can.

[JCB1977]

How long do you think the Chicago Outfit/Italian-American Organized Crime will be around in Chicago?

Chicago will cease to be a structured, viable family with money flowing up to a hierarchy some time over the next decade.

Remnants will still persist some time after that, but I am pretty convinced the family is on the way out.

The average member is like 75 and they aren't bringing in new people as far as I know. They're toast.

The greater Chicago metro area has almost 4 million more people than Philly. And the Outfit at its height was definitely stronger than Philly at its height. It’s kinda wild that Philly will outlast the Outfit.

Philly has been more of a gang than anything else over the past decade or so. They lost most of their control over the city and have been weakened to a degree where they only have South Philly and that is about it. They haven't had unions in 30 years at least, no construction rackets, Atlantic City is as cold as a Nun's asshole and that was one of the biggest income streams for Philly, at least during the Scarfo years. Sophisticated racketeering crimes have been gone in Philly for decades. They're a group of bookies and loansharks who hang out in a club in South Philly. While The Jockey has some balls, he doesn't have the brain capacity to grow the organization or expand on other crimes...at least up to this point, he has not demonstrated that he is anything more than an ineffective leader.

[JCB1977]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

[Amershire_Ed]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

I know it’s already happened in Jersey and some other spots but at what point does all the remnants of crews and families in Philly, New England, and even the smaller New York families just kinda get enveloped by the Gambinos and Genovese? I mean if you game it out those should be the last 2 families standing, right?

[JCB1977]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

I know it’s already happened in Jersey and some other spots but at what point does all the remnants of crews and families in Philly, New England, and even the smaller New York families just kinda get enveloped by the Gambinos and Genovese? I mean if you game it out those should be the last 2 families standing, right?

It sounds logical but I have no clue how that would work or even get set up. These guys aren't operating on old school LCN rules any longer. They're making guys who aren't even full blooded Italian, been going on for 30+ years. Do you think guys like Gambino, Lucchese, Accardo, Bruno, Patriarca, Chin, Corallo, Giancana, Civella etc etc would ever make a guy who wasn't 100% Italian? It was one of the first indications that the pool of recruits is drying up. When Italian migration in record numbers no longer existed, the pool of guys today who are 3rd and 4th generation Italian Americans never had to struggle like the old timers. Most of the newer guys can;'t do the kind of time that the old timers would take with a smile. There's a few but not even close to how it once was. Unless they got some guys from the other side, most of these young guys today would give up their mother to avoid the can

[Wiseguy]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

"I think law enforcement has done a lot of damage to the Mafia. There are very few families that are strong anymore. New York is about the only place where there's a Mafia now." (Charles Maurer, FBI, 2002)

[Moscone65]

Personally, while Philly is still functioning (Detroit, Buffalo, New England and NJ are debatable at best), I only consider the NY 5 families as truly the families that are left and a few of them are weakened like they have never been.

"I think law enforcement has done a lot of damage to the Mafia. There are very few families that are strong anymore. New York is about the only place where there's a Mafia now." (Charles Maurer, FBI, 2002)

LMAO