The night ‘The Cigar’ was snuffed out

[CabriniGreen]

Okay.... I get what you mean.....

They would have had to do what Rizzuto did.... make deals with distributors that they might not be inclined to do business with otherwise....

But its complicated... for example as antimafia points out, MANY groups import coke into Canada, right?
So there isnt really any leverage there if the gangbangrmers in the Wolfpack can go to Mexico and forge thier own connections. NOW, it's about who can move the MOST product, THE FASTEST.....

Essentially, the distributors are empowered, hence the Hells Angel's rise up there.....

The Rizzutos benefited from where they were located, being further up north. New York was always a hub for the Colombians, including the Cali Cartel. The LCN can always form it's own connections for cocaine but you're not going to move it faster, or more of it, than the guys who come from the same place the cocaine does.


This....

This line of thinking is PRECISLY how I got into this... because it's actually DEAD WRONG.....

It's why I was SO slow to accept that the Mexicanz could surpass the Colombians. I'm like " Fucking HOW!!! COCAINE GROWS IN COLOMBIA!!"... then I started to really study the dynamics of the trade....



No coke grows in Mexico, but they are ABSOLUTLY on the top of the food chain in cocaine....

[CabriniGreen]

(this bust was 1990, Rinna gets locked up like 92..... in 94, the Caruanas were busted sending 5000 plus kilos to Europe, but through the CALABRIAN clans who put up the money..... I really believe THIS was the start of Calabrian ascendancy... .)

The Caruanas were busted in '98. It was around this time that the 'Ndrangheta supplanted the Sicilians in the drug trade.

This is what I was referring to...


Natoli's fear that the clan continues to play a major role in the drug trade even though the principal leaders are in prison, proved to be correct. During the trial in Palermo, one of the defendants, the fugitive Alfonso Caruana, turned out to be the central organizer of a network that smuggled eleven metric tons of cocaine to Italy from 1991-94. The ring was dismantled in March 1995 in Northern Italy.

( Again, I dont think they were affected by the fall of Medillin ..)



Caruana brought together the cocaine producers of the Colombian Cartels with the Italian distributors, six 'ndrangheta families the Calabrian variant of the Mafia. Once again the Cuntrera-Caruana family was "the fly-wheel of the drug trade and the indispensable link between suppliers and distributors." (83)

The investigation – code-named Operazione Cartagine – started when the police seized 5497 kilo's of cocaine (a European record) in March 1994 in Turin. The operation "neutralized the most important supply-line of narcotics to Europe," investigators claimed (or hoped). A year later the Turin Prosecutors Office presented the indictment. (84)

This level of connections comes from being connected in South America, not New York, or Montreal.....

[Wiseguy]

Actually, my post was to illustrate that the Rizzutos benefited from being in South America, and this DOES or did give them the same level contacts as the DTOs.

They JUST busted ANOTHER Calabrian embedded in Brazil.... another cocaine broker....

The Colombians sent operatives to NY. That's what they had to do, if not, then they most likely would have been dealing with Italian- mafia brokers.... but these guys would HAVE to go to Colombia, or SOMEWHERE in South America for such connections. At the very least for the first introductions....

This is true of EVERY criminal group without exception. Albanians go to Colombia, Italians go everywhere in South America, the Iranian gangs in the Wolfpack go to Mexico..., either that, or control the point of entry.....



Like, Wiseguy, the Caruana- Cuntreras- Rizzutos were essentially the premier DTO at the time, in mafia terms,
more actual reach to the markets than the Colombians, even though the Colombians controlled the product....

They could tap into America and Europe, broker coke AND heroin, and had more diverse and sophisticated onnections for laundering money.

My point was that the Rizzutos benefited from not having the kind of Colombian presence (competition) in Montreal (the Rizzuto's market) that there was in New York. If there had been a similar Colombian presence in Montreal, the Rizzutos would have likely been marginalized as well.

[maloots]

New York Daily News (1979-07-13).jpg

Yep I knew it all along. That's what Moe did after he heard Carmine say he was leaving without paying his bill over that speaker they had in the kitchen. It's a shame those boys were so high strung that day. Although it was the month of July at the time. Maybe it had something to do with the summer heat and its effect on the local inhabitants. It was referred to as a "heat wave." Old Moe must have been "sweating bullets."

[antimafia]

Seems that only the French-Canadian media outlets are publishing articles about the recent Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) report, which is not available to the public. (No, I don't have a copy.)

Two recent articles by Éric Thibault about the CSIS report:

Le nombre d’adeptes de la coke a doublé en 4 ans
https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/ ... e-en-4-ans

Les cartels mexicains à l’assaut du marché des Hells
https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/ ... -des-hells

[Extortion]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.


As for the Galante hit it was as simple as him being killed by Rastelli loyalists for taking the reigns of power without permission. No different then when the Persico loyalists tried to kill Vic Orena in 1991 for trying to usurp Persico as Boss. The only difference was that the Persico loyalists missed and a war erupted. All this talk of it being about international drug trafficking is just the usual hype and sensationalism.


Pogo

He def got killed for multiple reasons but main was because of drugs and killing gambinos. If it was just massino rastelli why would the gambinos care so much?

[Extortion]

You gotta stop doing this. You cant argue drugs are a core racket, then turnaround and say they have been marginalized, THEN turn right around and act like they were equal partners with the sicilians, it makes no sense.

Drugs are a core racket for the NY families in the sense that they make significant regular income from it. Same for other core rackets like loansharking, extortion, labor racketeering and the biggest of all - gambling.

However, the LCN has been marginalized within the drug trade because they are no longer the main supply of drugs. Forget the few families left outside New York, they aren't even a blip on the radar. And even within the extended New York metropolitan area where the 5 families operate, it's the Colombians, Mexicans, Dominicans, etc who are the overwhelming source of the drug supply.

Again, that doesn't mean the NY families don't make millions from drugs. They do. But they're not moving even close to the weight these DTOs are. That's why drugs can be a core racket for them but they've still been marginalized in the overall drug trade.

Make sense?

As far as "equal partners," all I've said - and the government said the same thing - is that the Americans played a critical role in the trade too. Not only in terms of the territory but the actual selling of drugs as well. The Sicilians sold drugs to the Americans, who turned around and sold it to others.

It's like you dont even understand these SAME sicilians moving all the heroin, that the Americans were supposedly equal partners with, had access to and were moving MOUNTAINS of cocaine... so how were they marginalized?

When I say marginalized, I'm talking about the Mafia's market share of the American drug trade from the fall of the Pizza Connection up to the present day. So for about the past 35 years.

Before that, the Sicilian and American mobs had a controlling position in the American drug trade; at least the heroin trade. Obviously they were never in a position to be the main suppliers of cocaine or marijuana.

Dominicans are mostly distribution, not supply.

[Extortion]

Jamaican gangs, known as posses, are now dominating the American drug trade, with more than 10,000 members trafficking drugs in 20 states. According to Justice Department officials, they are as disciplined as they are violent. Torture and maiming are posse trademarks, and posse gunmen are said to prefer shooting their victims in public. Sources estimate they have committed 1,400 murders in three and a half years.


Pogo

First time im hearing jamacians have any influence since the 90s. What drugs though? There was christopher coke and yeah some posses but you never hear about these dudes getting busted or anything they must be like the russians in that regard

[Wiseguy]

Dominicans are mostly distribution, not supply.

They're both. As the favorite middlemen for the Colombians and Mexicans, they are the supply for others down the line. But there are also Dominicans who operate on the retail side .

First time im hearing jamacians have any influence since the 90s. What drugs though? There was christopher coke and yeah some posses but you never hear about these dudes getting busted or anything they must be like the russians in that regard

Pogo was quoting the 1990 Steven Seagal movie Marked for Death. It's just a joke.

[CabriniGreen]

I havent seen that movie in years, lol.....

It's always entertaining when yall do the Quote/TV show- movie thing.... You guys do have good taste in TV...

[z23]

Jamaican gangs, known as posses, are now dominating the American drug trade, with more than 10,000 members trafficking drugs in 20 states. According to Justice Department officials, they are as disciplined as they are violent. Torture and maiming are posse trademarks, and posse gunmen are said to prefer shooting their victims in public. Sources estimate they have committed 1,400 murders in three and a half years.


Pogo

First time im hearing jamacians have any influence since the 90s. What drugs though? There was christopher coke and yeah some posses but you never hear about these dudes getting busted or anything they must be like the russians in that regard

The Jamaicans were big in New York (direct from Kingston) during the '80's with the Shower posse and the Spanglers. You never hear about them anymore.

[Wiseguy]

Jamaican gangs, known as posses, are now dominating the American drug trade, with more than 10,000 members trafficking drugs in 20 states. According to Justice Department officials, they are as disciplined as they are violent. Torture and maiming are posse trademarks, and posse gunmen are said to prefer shooting their victims in public. Sources estimate they have committed 1,400 murders in three and a half years.


Pogo

First time im hearing jamacians have any influence since the 90s. What drugs though? There was christopher coke and yeah some posses but you never hear about these dudes getting busted or anything they must be like the russians in that regard

The Jamaicans were big in New York (direct from Kingston) during the '80's with the Shower posse and the Spanglers. You never hear about them anymore.

If you read the annual DEA National Drug Threat Assessments over the past two decades, the Jamaicans were still a factor in marijuana trafficking in the early 2000s. But since then, not much. The posses disappeared about as quickly as they came on the scene.

[Pogo The Clown]

The posses disappeared about as quickly as they came on the scene.

It must have been all that Voodoo.


Pogo

[johnny fazool]

The posses disappeared about as quickly as they came on the scene.

It must have been all that Voodoo.


Pogo

To quote the late Ross Perot. They were in "deep Voodoo."

[Lupara]

The Jamaicans make me somehow reminding of King of New York with Christopher Walken.