The night ‘The Cigar’ was snuffed out

[B.]

Cannone, did he stand up to Galante at all? Ferrugia, as I understood it was an old timer, respect Ted and chosen as a kinda " Placeholder" until the conflict in the family could be worked out, so no faction had an advantage over the other. I saw him as like a DiBella, but instead of a being installed by a powerful capo, he was installed by consensus.

Cannone was one of the main conspirators in the Galante murder and the lead shooter reported to him immediately after the murder, which I would call "standing up" against Galante to say the least. We don't know what one-on-one interactions between Cannone and Galante were like in the late 1970s or if Cannone ever challenged Galante on a given matter. Cannone very well may have been part of earlier alleged conspiracies against Galante and keep in mind with Galante in and out of prison he wasn't always available as a target. No doubt discussions and plans to murder Galante were in place before summer 1979.

Cannone did what mafia members do when they want to kill a powerful figure, which is go to the Commission to gain approval and then set up a well-organized murder. Cannone wasn't the only conspirator but was the highest-ranking Bonanno member (aside from Rastelli) involved in the conspiracy given that Marangello was not involved, which places Cannone at the top and center of the conspiracy.

I swear.. B. if I'm drug centric you are DEFINITLY Bonnano centric, lol...

I'll try to tackle your bullet point one by one to the best of my knowledge....

I'm 100% Bonanno centric in threads about the Bonanno family, I admit. You and I have only intersected in threads about the Bonanno family and the Bonanno Montreal crew, so there you go.

Rastelli was the official boss for over fifteen years, his enemies were all murdered, and his loyalists took over the family in his wake. That's his story on paper and it speaks for itself. Galante was feared/supported by a strong element in his own family, but posed a threat to the NYC mafia structure and was betrayed by some of his own followers. That's his story on paper.

The other families probably did have their own interests in mind, one of which is to follow mafia rules. If they allow usurpers to take over a family, it opens up the possibility that usurpers within their own families will try to take over. One of the purposes of the Commission is to uphold mafia rules, especially involving the boss position.

[thekiduknow]

The other families probably did have their own interests in mind, one of which is to follow mafia rules. If they allow usurpers to take over a family, it opens up the possibility that usurpers within their own families will try to take over. One of the purposes of the Commission is to uphold mafia rules, especially involving the boss position.

To quote Johnny Sack, “a move from below is what they fear most”. Quotations book aside, this is a good thread. After spending time digging into the Bonannos in the 60s, the 70s seem like a totally different beast to tackle.

[Super]

Sonny red one of my favourite mobsters but messed up not paying the canadians sure I read him and galante was close great admin material respected earner maybe to cocky.

[Fughedaboutit]

I read somewhere a long time ago about the true reason Carmine Galante was shot but can longer remember the source. I appears that he was shot based on an unfortunate and avoidable misunderstanding. In the article I read the table he sat at had a microphone placed under it that transmitted any conversation at the table to a speaker located in the kitchen of the restaurant. It was overheard on the speaker that he was going to get up and leave without paying the bill. They might have overreacted as business was a little slow that week.

Moe Tilden everyone.

[CabriniGreen]

@Wiseguy


Now I feel like we are getting somewhere.... I cant stand that dismissive " there was a ban", like it was a real Iron clad rule and not LCN politics....

And to your point of how LCN isnt even a blip.... think about Cali .......

When the Sicilian Cupola wanted to get back into the drug trade.... they reached out to CALI.... ok fine...

But the URSINOS reaching out to the Americans is to me..... like what's going on here?

Did you see this bust?

https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2019/0 ... i/5253547/

Basically, Calabria organizes all the shipments from South America.... To Canada, they have access to various ports.....

So why were the Ursinos, going through the Gambinos, for coke, when the American LCN is "Marginalized" in the trade. It tells me Calis connects through Venezuela had to have come from the Sicilian Gambino crew, the SAME connections the Rizzutos had.

And Vito meets with Gambinos in NY when he wants to sort out his problems? Shit is compelling to me.....

Especially when you see the Bonnanos meet with the Violis, who had connections in Colombia... This is why I've said I think they were trying g to build the same type of contacts the Gambinos had.....

Again...the Gambinos (and LCN in general) can have contacts for drugs, move lots of it, and make a lot of money....and still be marginalized in terms of the overall drug trade compared to the DTOs who move the vast majority of drugs.

And when you say American LCN never aas in position to control coke... what about this then?

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/02/22 ... 635662800/

At a time when gangbangers from the Pjs were wearing thier coke money in NY.... the SAME sicilians were shipping tons of coke to Europe...

Fast forward 25 years or so.... and the Sicilians went to tap BACK INTO these SAME contacts, hell the SAME FAMILY EVEN..... I mean, can you get a SMALL idea of why I fi d this particularly fascinating?

Again...I'm talking about the American market. That article is talking about the Sicilians moving cocaine to Europe.

You can go back to when cocaine first started coming on the scene. The LCN certainly got involved with it, as they have pretty much every other drug to some extent or another. But they were never in the kind of controlling position for cocaine in the U.S. like they were with heroin in the past. Pretty much from the early days to now, the Colombians have been the top cocaine suppliers in New York City.

You seem to not understand.... if you have contacts in the source countries, YOU ARE NOT MARGINALIZED, YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN......

The Sicilians were TRADING heroin for coke.....
There were Sicilian run coke rings in NY at the time.... Sal Spatola I believe ran one....


There are probably COUNTLESS organizations to sell narcotics to in NY. It depends on your level of networking. The Rizzuto model was the gold standard.... they manage the contacts, and negotiate between the guys that control the docks, and the Bikers and gangs that distribute in the streets, set a price, no competition..


That's all I'm saying... you cant argue they have the same level of contacts, then say they are marginalized.
That's contradictory.... If I can call Cali, and get 100 pounds of weed shipped anywhere on order, MANY distributors will become my friend, VERY quickly.....

If I'm a fuckin recluse or stuck up, then yeah, I'll be sitting on 80 pounds forever, hoping it moves itself.... I've seen this many times in real life ....


And this is what I'm saying...... The sicilians became MARGINALIZED in the European trade, BECAUSE THEY FUCKED UP RELATIONS WITH COLOMBIA, the Contacts...

(this bust was 1990, Rinna gets locked up like 92..... in 94, the Caruanas were busted sending 5000 plus kilos to Europe, but through the CALABRIAN clans who put up the money..... I really believe THIS was the start of Calabrian ascendancy... .)

Not because of competition from other ethnic groups like Albanians or Nigerians or whomever....

The CONTACTS, not the SMUGGLING ROUTES ( I've noticed sometimes yall confuse the 2..) are what matter.... the routes matter, but you need the connection FIRST...

My point is that the connections, and ultimate control came from the Sicilians. They controlled the product, LCN regulates the territory.

On a side note, everything that went along with the Pizza business, the supplies, locations, thay must have been dependent on LCN for all that... the cheese, the meats..... the equipment..... licenses and permits.....

[CabriniGreen]

Cannone, did he stand up to Galante at all? Ferrugia, as I understood it was an old timer, respect Ted and chosen as a kinda " Placeholder" until the conflict in the family could be worked out, so no faction had an advantage over the other. I saw him as like a DiBella, but instead of a being installed by a powerful capo, he was installed by consensus.

Cannone was one of the main conspirators in the Galante murder and the lead shooter reported to him immediately after the murder, which I would call "standing up" against Galante to say the least. We don't know what one-on-one interactions between Cannone and Galante were like in the late 1970s or if Cannone ever challenged Galante on a given matter. Cannone very well may have been part of earlier alleged conspiracies against Galante and keep in mind with Galante in and out of prison he wasn't always available as a target. No doubt discussions and plans to murder Galante were in place before summer 1979.

Cannone did what mafia members do when they want to kill a powerful figure, which is go to the Commission to gain approval and then set up a well-organized murder. Cannone wasn't the only conspirator but was the highest-ranking Bonanno member (aside from Rastelli) involved in the conspiracy given that Marangello was not involved, which places Cannone at the top and center of the conspiracy.

I swear.. B. if I'm drug centric you are DEFINITLY Bonnano centric, lol...

I'll try to tackle your bullet point one by one to the best of my knowledge....

I'm 100% Bonanno centric in threads about the Bonanno family, I admit. You and I have only intersected in threads about the Bonanno family and the Bonanno Montreal crew, so there you go.

Rastelli was the official boss for over fifteen years, his enemies were all murdered, and his loyalists took over the family in his wake. That's his story on paper and it speaks for itself. Galante was feared/supported by a strong element in his own family, but posed a threat to the NYC mafia structure and was betrayed by some of his own followers. That's his story on paper.

The other families probably did have their own interests in mind, one of which is to follow mafia rules. If they allow usurpers to take over a family, it opens up the possibility that usurpers within their own families will try to take over. One of the purposes of the Commission is to uphold mafia rules, especially involving the boss position.

Sometimes you guys kill me....

You know Tieri didnt go to the Commision for Bruno, Gotti for Castellano, Gotti backed Orena, the Commision wouldnt have stepped in with the current Luchesse thing,
it was an internal matter..... same with the Bonnano leadership question I suspect....


All I'm saying is the Commision was in charge of the Bonnanos for about 10 years, and had a vested interest in mediating the conflict. Its bizzare to me you would say they did it FOR Rastelli, Imo they did it to preserve stability and safeguard thier own interest......

Paul was a much bigger earner, the " Commision" didnt retaliate, it was 2 families who were hurt by the move. Colombos didnt care, Massino was Gottis ally, the Bonnanos wernt going to nothing....and even Casso was placating the Chin, he could have warned the Commision ahead of time a la Joe Colombo.... If the rules were sacrosanct....

[Frank]

Cannone, did he stand up to Galante at all? Ferrugia, as I understood it was an old timer, respect Ted and chosen as a kinda " Placeholder" until the conflict in the family could be worked out, so no faction had an advantage over the other. I saw him as like a DiBella, but instead of a being installed by a powerful capo, he was installed by consensus.

Cannone was one of the main conspirators in the Galante murder and the lead shooter reported to him immediately after the murder, which I would call "standing up" against Galante to say the least. We don't know what one-on-one interactions between Cannone and Galante were like in the late 1970s or if Cannone ever challenged Galante on a given matter. Cannone very well may have been part of earlier alleged conspiracies against Galante and keep in mind with Galante in and out of prison he wasn't always available as a target. No doubt discussions and plans to murder Galante were in place before summer 1979.

Cannone did what mafia members do when they want to kill a powerful figure, which is go to the Commission to gain approval and then set up a well-organized murder. Cannone wasn't the only conspirator but was the highest-ranking Bonanno member (aside from Rastelli) involved in the conspiracy given that Marangello was not involved, which places Cannone at the top and center of the conspiracy.

I swear.. B. if I'm drug centric you are DEFINITLY Bonnano centric, lol...

I'll try to tackle your bullet point one by one to the best of my knowledge....

I'm 100% Bonanno centric in threads about the Bonanno family, I admit. You and I have only intersected in threads about the Bonanno family and the Bonanno Montreal crew, so there you go.

Rastelli was the official boss for over fifteen years, his enemies were all murdered, and his loyalists took over the family in his wake. That's his story on paper and it speaks for itself. Galante was feared/supported by a strong element in his own family, but posed a threat to the NYC mafia structure and was betrayed by some of his own followers. That's his story on paper.

The other families probably did have their own interests in mind, one of which is to follow mafia rules. If they allow usurpers to take over a family, it opens up the possibility that usurpers within their own families will try to take over. One of the purposes of the Commission is to uphold mafia rules, especially involving the boss position.

Sometimes you guys kill me....

You know Tieri didnt go to the Commision for Bruno, Gotti for Castellano, Gotti backed Orena, the Commision wouldnt have stepped in with the current Luchesse thing,
it was an internal matter..... same with the Bonnano leadership question I suspect....


All I'm saying is the Commision was in charge of the Bonnanos for about 10 years, and had a vested interest in mediating the conflict. Its bizzare to me you would say they did it FOR Rastelli, Imo they did it to preserve stability and safeguard thier own interest......

Paul was a much bigger earner, the " Commision" didnt retaliate, it was 2 families who were hurt by the move. Colombos didnt care, Massino was Gottis ally, the Bonnanos wernt going to nothing....and even Casso was placating the Chin, he could have warned the Commision ahead of time a la Joe Colombo.... If the rules were sacrosanct....

Are you sure the Commission didn't act against Gotti for the Big Paulie hit?? I heard that Chicago met with Gigante to voice their displeasure with the hit. I always thought it was a Commission hit on Gotti that ended up killing his underboss.

[thekiduknow]

Yeah, it was my understanding that the DeCicco hit was meant for Gotti for the unsanctioned hit, and that the Luchesse family also hit at the Gambinos by killing Eddie Lino. I don’t know a lot about these families/this time period so I may be mislead but that was my understanding at least.

[Wiseguy]

You seem to not understand....

if you have contacts in the source countries, YOU ARE NOT MARGINALIZED, YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN......

The Sicilians were TRADING heroin for coke.....
There were Sicilian run coke rings in NY at the time.... Sal Spatola I believe ran one....

There are probably COUNTLESS organizations to sell narcotics to in NY. It depends on your level of networking. The Rizzuto model was the gold standard.... they manage the contacts, and negotiate between the guys that control the docks, and the Bikers and gangs that distribute in the streets, set a price, no competition..

That's all I'm saying... you cant argue they have the same level of contacts, then say they are marginalized.
That's contradictory.... If I can call Cali, and get 100 pounds of weed shipped anywhere on order, MANY distributors will become my friend, VERY quickly.....

If I'm a fuckin recluse or stuck up, then yeah, I'll be sitting on 80 pounds forever, hoping it moves itself.... I've seen this many times in real life ....

And this is what I'm saying...... The sicilians became MARGINALIZED in the European trade, BECAUSE THEY FUCKED UP RELATIONS WITH COLOMBIA, the Contacts...

(this bust was 1990, Rinna gets locked up like 92..... in 94, the Caruanas were busted sending 5000 plus kilos to Europe, but through the CALABRIAN clans who put up the money..... I really believe THIS was the start of Calabrian ascendancy... .)

Not because of competition from other ethnic groups like Albanians or Nigerians or whomever....

The CONTACTS, not the SMUGGLING ROUTES ( I've noticed sometimes yall confuse the 2..) are what matter.... the routes matter, but you need the connection FIRST...

My point is that the connections, and ultimate control came from the Sicilians. They controlled the product, LCN regulates the territory.

On a side note, everything that went along with the Pizza business, the supplies, locations, thay must have been dependent on LCN for all that... the cheese, the meats..... the equipment..... licenses and permits.....

It's not contradictory if you understand what I mean by marginalized. It's not about contacts, per se, but about market share. Regardless of what supply contacts the LCN had in the past, or has today, they are marginal compared to the DTOs supplying the vast majority of the drugs. And, incidentally, those DTOs move the most drugs (i.e. biggest market share) because they have the strongest contacts of all considering cocaine grows only in a few South American countries and the Colombian and Mexican cartels are able to refine their own high grade heroin.

[Pogo The Clown]

Jamaican gangs, known as posses, are now dominating the American drug trade, with more than 10,000 members trafficking drugs in 20 states. According to Justice Department officials, they are as disciplined as they are violent. Torture and maiming are posse trademarks, and posse gunmen are said to prefer shooting their victims in public. Sources estimate they have committed 1,400 murders in three and a half years.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Jamaican gangs, known as posses, are now dominating the American drug trade, with more than 10,000 members trafficking drugs in 20 states. According to Justice Department officials, they are as disciplined as they are violent. Torture and maiming are posse trademarks, and posse gunmen are said to prefer shooting their victims in public. Sources estimate they have committed 1,400 murders in three and a half years.


Pogo

"One thought he was invincible, the other thought he could fly. They were both wrong."

[TommyNoto]

You seem to not understand....

if you have contacts in the source countries, YOU ARE NOT MARGINALIZED, YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN......

The Sicilians were TRADING heroin for coke.....
There were Sicilian run coke rings in NY at the time.... Sal Spatola I believe ran one....

There are probably COUNTLESS organizations to sell narcotics to in NY. It depends on your level of networking. The Rizzuto model was the gold standard.... they manage the contacts, and negotiate between the guys that control the docks, and the Bikers and gangs that distribute in the streets, set a price, no competition..

That's all I'm saying... you cant argue they have the same level of contacts, then say they are marginalized.
That's contradictory.... If I can call Cali, and get 100 pounds of weed shipped anywhere on order, MANY distributors will become my friend, VERY quickly.....

If I'm a fuckin recluse or stuck up, then yeah, I'll be sitting on 80 pounds forever, hoping it moves itself.... I've seen this many times in real life ....

And this is what I'm saying...... The sicilians became MARGINALIZED in the European trade, BECAUSE THEY FUCKED UP RELATIONS WITH COLOMBIA, the Contacts...

(this bust was 1990, Rinna gets locked up like 92..... in 94, the Caruanas were busted sending 5000 plus kilos to Europe, but through the CALABRIAN clans who put up the money..... I really believe THIS was the start of Calabrian ascendancy... .)

Not because of competition from other ethnic groups like Albanians or Nigerians or whomever....

The CONTACTS, not the SMUGGLING ROUTES ( I've noticed sometimes yall confuse the 2..) are what matter.... the routes matter, but you need the connection FIRST...

My point is that the connections, and ultimate control came from the Sicilians. They controlled the product, LCN regulates the territory.

On a side note, everything that went along with the Pizza business, the supplies, locations, thay must have been dependent on LCN for all that... the cheese, the meats..... the equipment..... licenses and permits.....

It's not contradictory if you understand what I mean by marginalized. It's not about contacts, per se, but about market share. Regardless of what supply contacts the LCN had in the past, or has today, they are marginal compared to the DTOs supplying the vast majority of the drugs. And, incidentally, those DTOs move the most drugs (i.e. biggest market share) because they have the strongest contacts of all considering cocaine grows only in a few South American countries and the Colombian and Mexican cartels are able to refine their own high grade heroin.

Actually México and Columbian heroin is low grade quality compared to Asia / Afghanistan. Thats why fentanyl has taken off here and not in Europe as they have the real pure dope that makes no sense to mess with .

[CabriniGreen]

Jamaican gangs, known as posses, are now dominating the American drug trade, with more than 10,000 members trafficking drugs in 20 states. According to Justice Department officials, they are as disciplined as they are violent. Torture and maiming are posse trademarks, and posse gunmen are said to prefer shooting their victims in public. Sources estimate they have committed 1,400 murders in three and a half years.


Pogo

Really, like for real? Or is this a troll? Im dead ass seriously asking....

[CabriniGreen]

You seem to not understand....

if you have contacts in the source countries, YOU ARE NOT MARGINALIZED, YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN......

The Sicilians were TRADING heroin for coke.....
There were Sicilian run coke rings in NY at the time.... Sal Spatola I believe ran one....

There are probably COUNTLESS organizations to sell narcotics to in NY. It depends on your level of networking. The Rizzuto model was the gold standard.... they manage the contacts, and negotiate between the guys that control the docks, and the Bikers and gangs that distribute in the streets, set a price, no competition..

That's all I'm saying... you cant argue they have the same level of contacts, then say they are marginalized.
That's contradictory.... If I can call Cali, and get 100 pounds of weed shipped anywhere on order, MANY distributors will become my friend, VERY quickly.....

If I'm a fuckin recluse or stuck up, then yeah, I'll be sitting on 80 pounds forever, hoping it moves itself.... I've seen this many times in real life ....

And this is what I'm saying...... The sicilians became MARGINALIZED in the European trade, BECAUSE THEY FUCKED UP RELATIONS WITH COLOMBIA, the Contacts...

(this bust was 1990, Rinna gets locked up like 92..... in 94, the Caruanas were busted sending 5000 plus kilos to Europe, but through the CALABRIAN clans who put up the money..... I really believe THIS was the start of Calabrian ascendancy... .)

Not because of competition from other ethnic groups like Albanians or Nigerians or whomever....

The CONTACTS, not the SMUGGLING ROUTES ( I've noticed sometimes yall confuse the 2..) are what matter.... the routes matter, but you need the connection FIRST...

My point is that the connections, and ultimate control came from the Sicilians. They controlled the product, LCN regulates the territory.

On a side note, everything that went along with the Pizza business, the supplies, locations, thay must have been dependent on LCN for all that... the cheese, the meats..... the equipment..... licenses and permits.....

It's not contradictory if you understand what I mean by marginalized. It's not about contacts, per se, but about market share. Regardless of what supply contacts the LCN had in the past, or has today, they are marginal compared to the DTOs supplying the vast majority of the drugs. And, incidentally, those DTOs move the most drugs (i.e. biggest market share) because they have the strongest contacts of all considering cocaine grows only in a few South American countries and the Colombian and Mexican cartels are able to refine their own high grade heroin.

Okay.... I get what you mean.....

They would have had to do what Rizzuto did.... make deals with distributors that they might not be inclined to do business with otherwise....

But its complicated... for example as antimafia points out, MANY groups import coke into Canada, right?
So there isnt really any leverage there if the gangbangrmers in the Wolfpack can go to Mexico and forge thier own connections. NOW, it's about who can move the MOST product, THE FASTEST.....

Essentially, the distributors are empowered, hence the Hells Angel's rise up there.....

[scagghiuni]

And this is what I'm saying...... The sicilians became MARGINALIZED in the European trade, BECAUSE THEY FUCKED UP RELATIONS WITH COLOMBIA, the Contacts...

(this bust was 1990, Rinna gets locked up like 92..... in 94, the Caruanas were busted sending 5000 plus kilos to Europe, but through the CALABRIAN clans who put up the money..... I really believe THIS was the start of Calabrian ascendancy... .)

the sicilians lost their international influence over cocaine trafficking when medellin cartel was dismantled and escobar killed, they were strongly linked with pablo escobar... since then ndrangheta started his connections with the new top colombian dogs (especially paramilitary groups farc/auc/eln)