Where’s Philly’s indictment?

[Pogo The Clown]

So can I do the same thing? Can I say that Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are not made members...

What is the difference?

None of those guys were ex cops for over ten years.

So what? That just goes back to what I said about you guys simply going with what your view of what a "made guy" is.


Pogo

[Pogo The Clown]

he was considered made man by the underworld. and that's according to former phili capo made man bobby Luisi

Did he say it in his 302 or somewhere? If so that would put this to bed (not that is really up for debate).


Pogo

[Pogo The Clown]

Chart from May 1999 showing Previte as a Capo. Originally posted by Stroccos.


download/file.php?id=4960&mode=view

[Confederate]

So can I do the same thing? Can I say that Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are not made members...

What is the difference?

None of those guys were ex cops for over ten years.

So what? That just goes back to what I said about you guys simply going with what your view of what a "made guy" is.


Pogo

It seems that Philly took a page out of the Outfit's book with Previte. If a guy is recognized as being of "made" status, that is all that matters. A Ceremony can always be done afterwards when it is convenient. Also, on second thought, if the "Cop" thing was mentioned in LCN, it probably wasn't religiously followed in the same way the "no Dope" rule was ignored.

[B.]

There was an early informant who had been an LE officer in Italy and was proposed for membership in Philly but knocked down, presumably in part because of his LE background. We know about the rule, but we also know these things are overlooked and while they might have been vigilant about an LE background in the 1940s/50s, it was much different in the 1990s.

Consider too that Philadelphia always supposedly had the "100% Italian" rule in place, but in the 1980s Scarfo inducted a half-Polish member and promoted him to captain, making him one of the defacto leaders of the family. Tommy Delgiorno grew up in the neighborhood and photos alone of his mother make it clear she wasn't Italian. Examples like this are why I made that thread years ago asking what background research the mafia actually does into their proposed members. Here, at the height of Scarfo's power they didn't even bother to go down the street and glance at a proposed member's parents. What mattered at the time was that Delgiorno was a major bookmaker willing to do what Scarfo asked. Similarly, it's believable that Stanfa and his people did little to no background research into Previte, or if they did find an LE background, it was glossed over given the state of the organization.

I haven't seen any info that outright conflicts with Previte's account and given the situation in Philadephia during the Stanfa and Natale regimes where guys like Veasey were brought in and fringe associates were immediately promoted to leadership positions after being made, I can easily believe Previte became recognized as a member under Stanfa and was at some point given the captain title, even if it was virtually meaningless. Previte at least was Sicilian.

In one of the documentaries where Previte is interviewed, he appears to be hanging out with several members of his old crew, so there doesn't appear to be bad blood about his cooperation. Either he had some sort of agreement ala Gravano not to cooperate on his crew, otherwise chose not to target them, or they weren't terribly active. My impression of Previte's crew is it was/is basically a group of fat guys with no ethics who like hanging out together.

Does anyone have Natale's testimony on Previte's status? Stroccos has access to the court documents, so maybe it's in there or maybe LCNBios will eventually do another pull from Natale's 302s that includes details on Previte. To me, Previte's status says more about the Stanfa and Natale regimes than it does anything else and Previte is not out of place in the context of the organization during that time.

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah. Joe Sodano was another half Italian who got in under Scarfo despite the 100% rule. Then under Stanfa you had John Veasey getting made and he didn't even have an Italian name. Also isn't Vince Filipelli's real name Phillips and he changed to pass as Italian? I read that somewhere but don't remember if it was ever verified.


Pogo

[NJShore4Life]

Yes, Big Vince legally changed his name from Phillips to Filipelli.

[dack2001]

Big Ron was around because he was paying and nobody cared if he was actually made or not because he was with the right people so it didn't matter. But if the guys in charge felt he was legit they wouldn't have abused so thoroughly like they did the last couple years.

And he never says he had a sit-down with Ralph and the guys who were robbing his book and screwing his whores, he says he complained to Ralph and then complained Joey. Bfd, so did 50 guys a week. Those are the big red flags to me because sit-downs were still happening between made guys when Ralph and Joey were in charge in the mid-90's and are still happening today. The politics is still the strength. Maybe if Big Ron called a sit someone might have called his bluff and told him to go fuck himself.....

[NJShore4Life]

Big Ron was just an ATM to Natale and Joey.

[Stroccos]

Big Ron was around because he was paying and nobody cared if he was actually made or not because he was with the right people so it didn't matter. But if the guys in charge felt he was legit they wouldn't have abused so thoroughly like they did the last couple years.

And he never says he had a sit-down with Ralph and the guys who were robbing his book and screwing his whores, he says he complained to Ralph and then complained Joey. Bfd, so did 50 guys a week. Those are the big red flags to me because sit-downs were still happening between made guys when Ralph and Joey were in charge in the mid-90's and are still happening today. The politics is still the strength. Maybe if Big Ron called a sit someone might have called his bluff and told him to go fuck himself.....

I believe he had merlino agree to pay him back and of course never did that's not a sitdown ?
i guess some of rons guys did get busted or they were connected to ron , anthony cirillo and anthony mortellite both got busted for bookmaking
buddy sent me some good documents that will put the matter to bed

how about merlino introducing Luisi as a made guy to another made guy. During the late summer or early fall of 1998 on tape , Previte
participated in conversations in which Merlino, the acting Boss
of the Philadelphia LCN Family, introduced Robert Luisi as a made
member of the Philadelphia LCN Family. Merlino subsequently told
Previte that Luisi controlled a crew and operated for the Family
in Boston.

The conversation then switched to Luisi’s made-member,
“hand’s-off” role in cocaine transactions before returning to the
subject of “permission”:

Ronald Previte: And they make the fucking deposit slip.
Robert Luisi, Jr: See but we did a different thing up here.
We’re part of, ah, down there. You know what
I’m saying?
Ronald Previte: I understand.
Robert Luisi, Jr: We’re all together. They don’t want me
getting involved in, so I’m not involved in
this. I just point the fingers here and
there. That’s all.
Ronald Previte: You set it up. You don’t have to be okay.
Robert Luisi, Jr: That’s all I’m doing.

Ronald Previte: That’s all you’re doing. Let the other
people do it.
Robert Luisi, Jr: That’s all I’m doing.
Ronald Previte: What do you think I’m doing?
Robert Luisi, Jr: Nothin’.
Ronald Previte: I’m trying to set it up for my guy here.
He’s got something every couple of weeks.
Robert Luisi, Jr: Yeah. That’s all I’m doing.
...
Robert Luisi, Jr: If you don’t do that, you make no money.
Ronald Previte: That’s what I do, you know. What are we in
this business? If I want to be safe, I’ll
get a job. I’ll work over here. You know
that’s the story.
Robert Luisi, Jr: So any ways,
Ronald Previte: I’ll tell ya
Robert Luisi, Jr: as soon as this comes, he’s getting it fast.
Ronald Previte: All right.
Robert Luisi, Jr: Now more you got the money beautiful.
(Unintelligible)
Ronald Previte: The money’s there. The money is there.
Robert Luisi, Jr: We only.
Ronald Previte: Cash.
Robert Luisi, Jr: We’re getting this on credit. They’ll only
give us 2 at a time.
Ronald Previte: I know.
...
Robert Luisi, Jr: See we don’t, I don’t have my original guy.

made men cant touch drugs "shawns like us" meaning both previte and luisis are made guys like vetere "

On June 9, 1999, Previte traveled to Boston. The UCA and
Previte met Luisi at the Café Vittoria in the North End. Previte
met with Luisi first. During the conversation that ensued,
Previte stated he was not happy with Carrozza’s recent
performance and sought to replace him by suggesting that Luisi
substitute Vetere instead of Carrozza. Luisi responded that he
(Luisi) did not want Vetere touching drugs, stating, “I know, but
Shawn’s like us and ... Shawn can’t put his hands on that.”

[Stroccos]

he was considered made man by the underworld. and that's according to former phili capo made man bobby Luisi

Did he say it in his 302 or somewhere? If so that would put this to bed (not that is really up for debate).


Pogo

I don't have a copy of the 302's personally ,. Its not worth running them down as its very obvious

[Stroccos]

There was an early informant who had been an LE officer in Italy and was proposed for membership in Philly but knocked down, presumably in part because of his LE background. We know about the rule, but we also know these things are overlooked and while they might have been vigilant about an LE background in the 1940s/50s, it was much different in the 1990s.

Consider too that Philadelphia always supposedly had the "100% Italian" rule in place, but in the 1980s Scarfo inducted a half-Polish member and promoted him to captain, making him one of the defacto leaders of the family. Tommy Delgiorno grew up in the neighborhood and photos alone of his mother make it clear she wasn't Italian. Examples like this are why I made that thread years ago asking what background research the mafia actually does into their proposed members. Here, at the height of Scarfo's power they didn't even bother to go down the street and glance at a proposed member's parents. What mattered at the time was that Delgiorno was a major bookmaker willing to do what Scarfo asked. Similarly, it's believable that Stanfa and his people did little to no background research into Previte, or if they did find an LE background, it was glossed over given the state of the organization.

I haven't seen any info that outright conflicts with Previte's account and given the situation in Philadephia during the Stanfa and Natale regimes where guys like Veasey were brought in and fringe associates were immediately promoted to leadership positions after being made, I can easily believe Previte became recognized as a member under Stanfa and was at some point given the captain title, even if it was virtually meaningless. Previte at least was Sicilian.

In one of the documentaries where Previte is interviewed, he appears to be hanging out with several members of his old crew, so there doesn't appear to be bad blood about his cooperation. Either he had some sort of agreement ala Gravano not to cooperate on his crew, otherwise chose not to target them, or they weren't terribly active. My impression of Previte's crew is it was/is basically a group of fat guys with no ethics who like hanging out together.

Does anyone have Natale's testimony on Previte's status? Stroccos has access to the court documents, so maybe it's in there or maybe LCNBios will eventually do another pull from Natale's 302s that includes details on Previte. To me, Previte's status says more about the Stanfa and Natale regimes than it does anything else and Previte is not out of place in the context of the organization during that time.

i dont have any of the cout documents from natale , very few on previte , when i get some free time maybe i will inquire into gettin the full transcripts for previte and natales testimony

[dack2001]

Good stuff, but I'd still like to hear how the introduction was made. Friend of ours, assuming that's the phrasing...than clearly Merlino considered Big Ron to be made or represented him to be. However, I bet if they knew that he never went through a ceremony things would have changed.....but since he paid maybe nobody fucking cared.

[UTC]

So can I do the same thing? Can I say that Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are not made members...

What is the difference?

None of those guys were ex cops for over ten years.

Actually, ex-cops are ex-cops forever.

[SonnyBlackstein]

So can I do the same thing? Can I say that Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are not made members...

What is the difference?

None of those guys were ex cops for over ten years.

Actually, ex-cops are ex-cops forever.

Sigh.