Status of CN families

[Homerthedog]

I watched recently an interview with Michael Franzese, where he stated only 9 families that remain out of the two dozen that once covered the country. I believe he was referring to the 5 New York families, the Chicago Outfit, Philadelphia, the DeCavalcantes, and the Patriarca Family. I thought the Detroit partnership and Buffalo still existed. I figured those two families may be taking advantage of the mob war in Canada and are rebounding a bit.

I know that every family west of the Mississippi and south of the Mason Dixon line are gone. And Cleveland may only be nothing more than an unorganized crew. Enlighten me as what families exist and what measure is used by the FBI to determine that a family is defunct.

[scagghiuni]

the buffalo family still exists according to wiretaps although mainly active in canada, i don't know about detroit

[Wiseguy]

I watched recently an interview with Michael Franzese, where he stated only 9 families that remain out of the two dozen that once covered the country. I believe he was referring to the 5 New York families, the Chicago Outfit, Philadelphia, the DeCavalcantes, and the Patriarca Family. I thought the Detroit partnership and Buffalo still existed. I figured those two families may be taking advantage of the mob war in Canada and are rebounding a bit.

I know that every family west of the Mississippi and south of the Mason Dixon line are gone. And Cleveland may only be nothing more than an unorganized crew. Enlighten me as what families exist and what measure is used by the FBI to determine that a family is defunct.

Franzese was correct. And the 9 families you listed are those 9. Buffalo and Detroit lasted longer into the 1990s than many other families did after the government's onslaught on the 1980s but that was the last time either family really had a significant case.


"Operation Button Down, the codename for the FBI's campaign to crush the Mafia, reduced the number of families operating in the United States from 24 to only nine, FBI officials said." (CNN article, 2004)

[Confederate]

I watched recently an interview with Michael Franzese, where he stated only 9 families that remain out of the two dozen that once covered the country. I believe he was referring to the 5 New York families, the Chicago Outfit, Philadelphia, the DeCavalcantes, and the Patriarca Family. I thought the Detroit partnership and Buffalo still existed. I figured those two families may be taking advantage of the mob war in Canada and are rebounding a bit.

I know that every family west of the Mississippi and south of the Mason Dixon line are gone. And Cleveland may only be nothing more than an unorganized crew. Enlighten me as what families exist and what measure is used by the FBI to determine that a family is defunct.

Franzese was correct. And the 9 families you listed are those 9. Buffalo and Detroit lasted longer into the 1990s than many other families did after the government's onslaught on the 1980s but that was the last time either family really had a significant case.


"Operation Button Down, the codename for the FBI's campaign to crush the Mafia, reduced the number of families operating in the United States from 24 to only nine, FBI officials said." (CNN article, 2004)

Correct me if I'm wrong: Did the Feds list the remaining 9 Families in this order of Power?
New York 5:
Genovese
Gambino
Lucchese
Bonnano
Colombo

Small Families:
New Jersey
Philly
Chicago
New England

[Homerthedog]

"Operation Button Down, the codename for the FBI's campaign to crush the Mafia, reduced the number of families operating in the United States from 24 to only nine, FBI officials said." (CNN article, 2004)

So the FBI determines status by level of activities as a family. Roger that.

Now as far as Buffalo wasn't there a report that Domenico Violi, head of the Luppino 'ndrina in Hamilton, made underboss recently? He reportedly said that he beat out 30 other guys for the post. Thus he was the highest ranking mobster in the American Cosa Nostra.

[Homerthedog]

Canadian mobster I meant

[Chaps]

Now, just for the record, I'm not getting into the age old debate about viable families based upon the number of indictments made against them. Even the NY Families have not had that many indictments recently compared to the 80's and 90's. That's because the FBI has had more threatening things to deal with than LCN. I agree with the above list but would still add Detroit as a 10th Family. By all accounts they still have a structure and businesses. It's just that the Feds don't see them as a threat. No murders and they let people gamble. Not really a big deal compared to terrorism.

[Wiseguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong: Did the Feds list the remaining 9 Families in this order of Power?
New York 5:
Genovese
Gambino
Lucchese
Bonnano
Colombo

Small Families:
New Jersey
Philly
Chicago
New England

I haven't seen any comprehensive list by the feds. You basically have to take the evidence as it typically comes - an indictment here, a comment by an agent or OC expert there, etc.- put it all together and draw your conclusions.

There is obviously a consensus that the Genovese family is at the top. How you round out the top 5 appears to be correct. Though, in my opinion, there is a drop off between the the two larger NY families and the three smaller ones. And there isn't a whole lot of difference between the three smaller ones. In other words, while the Luccheses are in relatively better shape, they're not light years ahead of the Colombos.

I also think there's a drop off between the weakest NY family and the few remaining elsewhere. Rating #6-9 would be more difficult but all those families are small and weak. It's one reason why it's futile to look for any other families. Seeing the state New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago are in, what is the mob going to look like in Buffalo or Detroit?

"Operation Button Down, the codename for the FBI's campaign to crush the Mafia, reduced the number of families operating in the United States from 24 to only nine, FBI officials said." (CNN article, 2004)

So the FBI determines status by level of activities as a family. Roger that.

It's certainly one way we, as observers, can tell how law enforcement views a family. The more active a family is, the more resources they'll devote to it. Generally speaking, that results in more indictments. It's why you see a lot of mob cases in New York and none in St. Louis.

Now as far as Buffalo wasn't there a report that Domenico Violi, head of the Luppino 'ndrina in Hamilton, made underboss recently? He reportedly said that he beat out 30 other guys for the post. Thus he was the highest ranking mobster in the American Cosa Nostra.

That came out in the wiretaps on the Violi drug case. As has been discussed before, we've seen several past examples where a guy might hold a particular position but it's in a family that's defunct or nearly so. As for there being that many made members, I personally need more evidence than Violi's comment considering the feds had the family at 23 members in 2006; with several dying since then. For 20 years we didn't see much come out of Buffalo at all. And in 2017, the feds said there's no family left in Buffalo. Some Canadian-based members getting caught up in a drug bust, whatever their titles, doesn't suddenly erase all that.

Now, just for the record, I'm not getting into the age old debate about viable families based upon the number of indictments made against them. Even the NY Families have not had that many indictments recently compared to the 80's and 90's. That's because the FBI has had more threatening things to deal with than LCN. I agree with the above list but would still add Detroit as a 10th Family. By all accounts they still have a structure and businesses. It's just that the Feds don't see them as a threat. No murders and they let people gamble. Not really a big deal compared to terrorism.

First, comparing New York to anywhere else is not apples to apples. Second, if you look at NY mob cases from 2000 to the present, you'll see they've continued to be pretty consistent. Third, when you say "by all accounts" in relation to Detroit, who's accounts are you talking about?

[johnny_scootch]

Now as far as Buffalo wasn't there a report that Domenico Violi, head of the Luppino 'ndrina in Hamilton, made underboss recently? He reportedly said that he beat out 30 other guys for the post. Thus he was the highest ranking mobster in the American Cosa Nostra.

The Luppino's aren't a 'ndrina, they are members of American Cosa Nostra.

[Homerthedog]

Now as far as Buffalo wasn't there a report that Domenico Violi, head of the Luppino 'ndrina in Hamilton, made underboss recently? He reportedly said that he beat out 30 other guys for the post. Thus he was the highest ranking mobster in the American Cosa Nostra.

The Luppino's aren't a 'ndrina, they are members of American Cosa Nostra.

My error. I thought they, and the other Hamilton outfits were Calabrians. But I do see in a couple of lists I have that there were Luppinos and Papalias made in the Buffalo family back in the day. Were a few others made in other Cosa Nostra families as well?

[Moscone65]

A Detroit wiseguy and an Italian American associate of his got busted in Detroit earlier this year for drugs.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 136698002/

[Confederate]

A Detroit wiseguy and an Italian American associate of his got busted in Detroit earlier this year for drugs.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 136698002/

Maybe I missed it in the article, but WHERE does it say somebody was a Detroit Wiseguy? Sounds to me like a couple guys with Italian last names were involved in buying drugs which could happen in any major city in America.

[gohnjotti]

A Detroit wiseguy and an Italian American associate of his got busted in Detroit earlier this year for drugs.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 136698002/

Maybe I missed it in the article, but WHERE does it say somebody was a Detroit Wiseguy? Sounds to me like a couple guys with Italian last names were involved in buying drugs which could happen in any major city in America.

I was wondering the same thing, so I did a bit of googling and found that Moscone65 is indeed right:
https://gangsterreport.com/motown-mafia ... -20-piece/

[Confederate]

A Detroit wiseguy and an Italian American associate of his got busted in Detroit earlier this year for drugs.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 136698002/

Maybe I missed it in the article, but WHERE does it say somebody was a Detroit Wiseguy? Sounds to me like a couple guys with Italian last names were involved in buying drugs which could happen in any major city in America.

I was wondering the same thing, so I did a bit of googling and found that Moscone65 is indeed right:
https://gangsterreport.com/motown-mafia ... -20-piece/

Thanks gohn. I wonder if that was the last big case against the Detroit Mafia which was 20 plus years ago? The Feds haven't even acknowledged Detroit as being an active Family for the last 15 years according to Wiseguy's information. Based upon that premise, It sounds to me like there are a few left over guys in Detroit just operating on their own like in some other Cities where there is no structured Family anymore.

[johnny_scootch]

My error. I thought they, and the other Hamilton outfits were Calabrians. But I do see in a couple of lists I have that there were Luppinos and Papalias made in the Buffalo family back in the day. Were a few others made in other Cosa Nostra families as well?

They are labeled as such all the time because no one really has a good handle on what the true situation is up there. We do know that John Papalia, Natale Luppino, Rocco Luppino and Domenico Violi were/are members of American Cosa Nostra. I believe Giacomo Luppino and his son Vincenzo were also members even though Giacomo was a member of the Ndrangheta. Rare case of double affiliation.