Cherry Hill Gambinos Question

[baldo]

It’s a book. I bought it off amazon.

[Eline2015]

It’s a book. I bought it off amazon.

Claire Sterling?

[baldo]

Yes, found it here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/03930 ... UTF8&psc=1

[CabriniGreen]

I believe they came over in 1964. Was there a mafia war over there in that time period? Maybe it was a case of them originally comming over here to stay alive, and Carlo helping his family. I don't know, but they were related to one of the top LCN bosses of that time. Did they come over here with alot of money? Or did Carlo set them up moneywise? The answer to the original question could go all the way back to when they first came here. I wonder if the Gambino Bros dad was made, and if he was successful in the drug trade?

No, no war in the 60s....

They came over to make thier drug fortunes, the Palermo refineries were just really coming online, they really got going in the 70s..

Buscetta explains it, he said the sicilians became rich quickly from heroin....

[CabriniGreen]

In Sicily what is now known as the First Mafia War began in December 1962 followed by what became known as the Ciaculli massacre in June 1963. At the time and especially after the massacre Buscetta and many others came to the U.S. as well as South America. At the time the migration appeared to be to avoid apprehension by the local authorities. The reason for the migration at that time was different from what motivated a subsequent migration in the early 1980's as a result of the Corleonesi and what is now known as the Second Mafia War.

Yes, this war was actually beneficial to a small click of clans, the Gambino and thier allies like the Inzerillos, Badalamenti, the Grecos, the Caruana- Cuntreras....

The drug trade fell into thier hands...

Interestingly enough, this first mafia war was also caused by rivalries in Sicily because of the drug trade.
It disrupted the Sicilian component at the same time the American component was disrupted, ( Bonnano ousted, Genovese Galante and Ormento jailed, Luciano died, Cavatiao pitting the Palermo bosses against each other..) as well as the Canadian- French connection part being disrupted.

These were some of the reasons it went to primarily Sicilian control. The families with access to America had the most profit potential..

[baldo]

According to the book, after the 57 meeting at the Grand Hotel des Palmes is when the heroin pipeline started. There does seem to be some doubt as to the reason for this meeting as it was never able to be confirmed. The Ciaculli massacre was in 63 which caused a lot of mafiosi to flee which may be the reason they came over (in 64). Cabrini, you ever read the Octopus?

[stubbs]

I'm about halfway through reading "The Octopus" (highly recommended if you're interested in the Sicilian drug connection.) One thing I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is how the Cherry Hill group seemed to be such heavy players with so many international connections (John Gambino was personally escorting MIchele Sindona around Sicily when he was "kidnapped") yet they were subservient to Gotti, who for lack of a better word, was nowhere near as sophisticated or connected as these guys. I know there has been some disagreement on here between very well respected posters as to the relationship between the Cherry Hill group and Gotti but what did they get out of being made members here. I know Rosario was made in Sicily and not in the Gambino family IIRC. It just seems that the Cherry Hill group was much more powerful and connected than someone like Gotti (or anyone else in that family). Hoping you guys can shed some light (looking right at you Felice and Bronx LOL). Thanks.

Cabrini has talked about this before, about understanding the difference between a mobster’s rank and power, which aren’t the same thing. Even though Gambino was technically under Gotti, his power was far greater than a normal capo operating in Brooklyn or wherever. I mean, he was sitting down with Toto Riina in Palermo in the 80s. It’s like Gotti was the boss of the Gambinos but John Gambino was the boss of the Pizza Connection operation, at least on the Gambino family side, with deep connections to the bosses back in Sicily.

Same thing with Nick Rizzuto and Vito in the 70s in Montreal. Only instead of letting them operate Violi got in their way and had to be clipped. There were too many stakeholders involved in the drug operation and Violi was a barrier to the Rizzutos running things smoothly. Rizzutos connections in the Bonannos and to Sicily were likely the reason they were backed in their takeover.

[CabriniGreen]

The Ciaculli massacre dispersed the entire mafia.. and the trials and police pressure left the mafia as a whole struggling for money by about 1968.

This is why they initiated the 3 families in Naples, to gain access to the tobacco trade.

It wasnt until they became proficient at refining that they became liberated from the Naples gangsters smuggling networks.... Some thing about.... I forget.... I think morphine base weighs less than opium base? Some shit like that.....

[CabriniGreen]

According to the book, after the 57 meeting at the Grand Hotel des Palmes is when the heroin pipeline started. There does seem to be some doubt as to the reason for this meeting as it was never able to be confirmed. The Ciaculli massacre was in 63 which caused a lot of mafiosi to flee which may be the reason they came over (in 64). Cabrini, you ever read the Octopus?

Oh yeah, me and Wiseguy had a blowup over it....
I think it was the double affiliation thread....

[maloots]

In Sicily what is now known as the First Mafia War began in December 1962 followed by what became known as the Ciaculli massacre in June 1963. At the time and especially after the massacre Buscetta and many others came to the U.S. as well as South America. At the time the migration appeared to be to avoid apprehension by the local authorities. The reason for the migration at that time was different from what motivated a subsequent migration in the early 1980's as a result of the Corleonesi and what is now known as the Second Mafia War.

Yes, this war was actually beneficial to a small click of clans, the Gambino and thier allies like the Inzerillos, Badalamenti, the Grecos, the Caruana- Cuntreras....

The drug trade fell into thier hands...

Interestingly enough, this first mafia war was also caused by rivalries in Sicily because of the drug trade.
It disrupted the Sicilian component at the same time the American component was disrupted, ( Bonnano ousted, Genovese Galante and Ormento jailed, Luciano died, Cavatiao pitting the Palermo bosses against each other..) as well as the Canadian- French connection part being disrupted.

These were some of the reasons it went to primarily Sicilian control. The families with access to America had the most profit potential..

The Sicilian's always had control or a foothold on the heroin trade in this county going back to the 1950's. The Americans referred to it as the "junk business" (at the time heroin was called or referred to as junk). While the Italians (Sicilians) called it babania (pronounced ba-bine-ya).

A lot of the traffic during the 1950's and early 1960's took place on Pleasant Avenue in East Harlem and at the time young Italian guys (or young guys of Italian decent) who became known as the Purple Gang (the the Detroit version) played a role in facilitating the flow of traffic, but on a much smaller scale.

The Sicilian's always had elements of their own insular family (member who were formally inducted in Sicily and or associates who were also Sicilian born) that operated within this country, and that was (is) exclusively involved in babania from the growth and cultivation of it outside of the U.S, the processing of it in labs, the importation or smuggling of it into the county, the distribution and sale of it, and then the collection and transfer of the proceeds out of the county to accounts around the globe.

During the 1960's and 70's the Sicilian's successfully established nothing short of what amounted to a multinational corporation.

[maloots]

I'm about halfway through reading "The Octopus" (highly recommended if you're interested in the Sicilian drug connection.) One thing I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is how the Cherry Hill group seemed to be such heavy players with so many international connections (John Gambino was personally escorting MIchele Sindona around Sicily when he was "kidnapped") yet they were subservient to Gotti, who for lack of a better word, was nowhere near as sophisticated or connected as these guys. I know there has been some disagreement on here between very well respected posters as to the relationship between the Cherry Hill group and Gotti but what did they get out of being made members here. I know Rosario was made in Sicily and not in the Gambino family IIRC. It just seems that the Cherry Hill group was much more powerful and connected than someone like Gotti (or anyone else in that family). Hoping you guys can shed some light (looking right at you Felice and Bronx LOL). Thanks.

Baldo, there a two Mafia related books that have the word Octopus in their title.

(1) The Octopus: The Rise and Rise of the Sicilian Mafia written by Joe Pieri

(2) Octopus: The Long Reach of the International Sicilian Mafia written by Claire Sterling

Which book are you reading?

[maloots]

In Sicily what is now known as the First Mafia War began in December 1962 followed by what became known as the Ciaculli massacre in June 1963. At the time and especially after the massacre Buscetta and many others came to the U.S. as well as South America. At the time the migration appeared to be to avoid apprehension by the local authorities. The reason for the migration at that time was different from what motivated a subsequent migration in the early 1980's as a result of the Corleonesi and what is now known as the Second Mafia War.

Yes, this war was actually beneficial to a small click of clans, the Gambino and thier allies like the Inzerillos, Badalamenti, the Grecos, the Caruana- Cuntreras....

The drug trade fell into thier hands...

Interestingly enough, this first mafia war was also caused by rivalries in Sicily because of the drug trade.
It disrupted the Sicilian component at the same time the American component was disrupted, ( Bonnano ousted, Genovese Galante and Ormento jailed, Luciano died, Cavatiao pitting the Palermo bosses against each other..) as well as the Canadian- French connection part being disrupted.

These were some of the reasons it went to primarily Sicilian control. The families with access to America had the most profit potential..

The Sicilian's always had control or a foothold on the heroin trade in this county going back to the 1950's. The Americans referred to it as the "junk business" (at the time heroin was called or referred to as junk). While the Italians (Sicilians) called it babania (pronounced ba-bine-ya).

A lot of the traffic during the 1950's and early 1960's took place on Pleasant Avenue in East Harlem and at the time young Italian guys (or young guys of Italian decent) who became known as the Purple Gang (the the Detroit version) played a role in facilitating the flow of traffic, but on a much smaller scale.

The Sicilian's always had elements of their own insular family (member who were formally inducted in Sicily and or associates who were also Sicilian born) that operated within this country, and that was (is) exclusively involved in babania from the growth and cultivation of it outside of the U.S, the processing of it in labs, the importation or smuggling of it into the county, the distribution and sale of it, and then the collection and transfer of the proceeds out of the county to accounts around the globe.

During the 1960's and 70's the Sicilian's successfully established nothing short of what amounted to a multinational corporation.

My mistake the section of the sentence "who became known as the Purple Gang (the the Detroit version)" should have read "(NOT the Detroit version)." Mi scusi.

[baldo]

maloots, was referring to 2 (sterling). Thanks.

[kpjohnson]

maloots, was referring to 2 (sterling). Thanks.

The book you are reading Baldo is the better of the two. In fact there is no comparison. Claire Sterling is good God rest her.

The other one stinks and is a waste of time, in my opinion. After reading around on this board for awhile you will probably know more than the guy who wrote the other Octopus book.

However in the event you are interested in checking it out for yourself it can be downloaded in epub format for free for this site:

The Octopus. The Rise and Rise of the Sicilian Mafia
https://b-ok.cc/book/2540953/57859b

For the snazzy cover and all I found it to be a disappointment.

[John W]

maloots, was referring to 2 (sterling). Thanks.

The book you are reading Baldo is the better of the two. In fact there is no comparison. Claire Sterling is good God rest her.

The other one stinks and is a waste of time, in my opinion. After reading around on this board for awhile you will probably know more than the guy who wrote the other Octopus book.

However in the event you are interested in checking it out for yourself it can be downloaded in epub format for free for this site:

The Octopus. The Rise and Rise of the Sicilian Mafia
https://b-ok.cc/book/2540953/57859b

For the snazzy cover and all I found it to be a disappointment.

That book the link is for is the worse organized crime book I haver ever read, it was so bad I threw it straight in the bin and Iv got 100's of books in my collection about organised crime including some bad ones but this one was truly terrible, it had so many lies in it I.E that Lefty was beaten to death because of Donnie Brasco lol, don't bother reading the book.

The Claire Sterling book 'The Octopus' is a classic which was also released years later under the name 'The Mafia'