Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Lupara]

A Canadian murder. 'Buffalo's crime family.' Is the Mafia still around?

https://buffalonews.com/2019/04/30/in-c ... -and-well/

Spectator ran a story indicating Musitano had organized crime enemies in Montreal and Buffalo.

This is interesting. I wonder who his enemies in Montreal might be.

[JCB1977]

Kick ass thread

[Wiseguy]

"Why would the Mafia go away?" asked Peter Edwards, referring to the mob in Buffalo.

Same reason it has in so many other US cities.

Edwards is the organized crime beat reporter at the Toronto Star and the author of 15 books about organized crime. He points to wiretap recordings and sources that indicate the Mafia is on the rebound here and still very much involved in organized crime activities across the border.

Thats just it - across the border, on the Canadian side to some degree, though it seems to be more ripple effects of the fighting in Montreal and Toronto more than anything. They keep trying to tie this into the "Buffalo family" on the American side but, what we've seen so far - the drug bust, the murders - have all involved remnants of the family in Canada. Not Buffalo, where a "rebound" is highly dubious.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Jeezus WG.
We know your POV already.

[JCB1977]

"Why would the Mafia go away?" asked Peter Edwards, referring to the mob in Buffalo.

Same reason it has in so many other US cities.

Edwards is the organized crime beat reporter at the Toronto Star and the author of 15 books about organized crime. He points to wiretap recordings and sources that indicate the Mafia is on the rebound here and still very much involved in organized crime activities across the border.

Thats just it - across the border, on the Canadian side to some degree, though it seems to be more ripple effects of the fighting in Montreal and Toronto more than anything. They keep trying to tie this into the "Buffalo family" on the American side but, what we've seen so far - the drug bust, the murders - have all involved remnants of the family in Canada. Not Buffalo, where a "rebound" is highly dubious.

I hear what you are saying Wiseguy and to an extent, I agree based off your metrics. But if these reporters are basing their journalism off wiretaps and Buffalo is being mentioned in those taps, this could be a pretty awesome thing for LCN as we have never seen a smaller family rebuild or regenerate activity that I know of. I am hopeful that there is validity that Violi is UB of Buffalo and the Canadians have seized control. Probably wishful thinking but nonetheless interesting to watch.

[Lupara]

"Why would the Mafia go away?" asked Peter Edwards, referring to the mob in Buffalo.

Same reason it has in so many other US cities.

Edwards is the organized crime beat reporter at the Toronto Star and the author of 15 books about organized crime. He points to wiretap recordings and sources that indicate the Mafia is on the rebound here and still very much involved in organized crime activities across the border.

Thats just it - across the border, on the Canadian side to some degree, though it seems to be more ripple effects of the fighting in Montreal and Toronto more than anything. They keep trying to tie this into the "Buffalo family" on the American side but, what we've seen so far - the drug bust, the murders - have all involved remnants of the family in Canada. Not Buffalo, where a "rebound" is highly dubious.

You're a little late to the party WG. We've had a debate on this for months, which was won by me and Sonny, and only now you let us know that you think that there's no more Buffalo? You should've let us know sooner so you could've joined the game.

Next debate I'll notifiy you so you have a change to make your case.

[Wiseguy]

Jeezus WG.
We know your POV already.

What makes you think my post is to inform you about my point of view?

I knew this response was coming so I'll just say I posted that because A) it's been slow on the board lately; and B) it was a response to the points in the article which, if had it not been posted, you'd have reason to complain about me treading over old ground.

I hear what you are saying Wiseguy and to an extent, I agree based off your metrics. But if these reporters are basing their journalism off wiretaps and Buffalo is being mentioned in those taps, this could be a pretty awesome thing for LCN as we have never seen a smaller family rebuild or regenerate activity that I know of. I am hopeful that there is validity that Violi is UB of Buffalo and the Canadians have seized control. Probably wishful thinking but nonetheless interesting to watch.

Well, at least you admit your belief or hope about Buffalo stems from one possibility being more exciting. Others wouldn't. But I don't think it's a matter if the Canadians seizing control so much as those remnants have had a measure of activity lately - again due in no small part to what's happening elsewhere in Canada - and there being little left in Buffalo as the FBI has stated.

You're a little late to the party WG. We've had a debate on this for months, which was won by me and Sonny, and only now you let us know that you think that there's no more Buffalo? You should've let us know sooner so you could've joined the game.

Next debate I'll notifiy you so you have a change to make your case.

I see what you did there.

[Angelo Santino]

So is your assertion that Dominic Violi fabricated everything on wiretap: the group, the number 30, Florida meeting, 'making history?' And if he has, why have the authorities submitted this into evidence? If you were a defense attorney, how would you challenge the submitted evidence?

[SonnyBlackstein]

"Why would the Mafia go away?" asked Peter Edwards, referring to the mob in Buffalo.

Same reason it has in so many other US cities.

Edwards is the organized crime beat reporter at the Toronto Star and the author of 15 books about organized crime. He points to wiretap recordings and sources that indicate the Mafia is on the rebound here and still very much involved in organized crime activities across the border.

Thats just it - across the border, on the Canadian side to some degree, though it seems to be more ripple effects of the fighting in Montreal and Toronto more than anything. They keep trying to tie this into the "Buffalo family" on the American side but, what we've seen so far - the drug bust, the murders - have all involved remnants of the family in Canada. Not Buffalo, where a "rebound" is highly dubious.

You're a little late to the party WG. We've had a debate on this for months, which was won by me and Sonny, and only now you let us know that you think that there's no more Buffalo? You should've let us know sooner so you could've joined the game.

Next debate I'll notifiy you so you have a change to make your case.

[UTC]

"Man who worked as paid agent for RCMP tells court he was not involved in murder of reputed mobster Carmine Verduci"

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/0 ... rduci.html

"Ex-mobster tells court $2.4M he was paid for working as police agent ‘isn’t half of what I gave up’"

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/0 ... ve-up.html

Great article AM.

When he states the $2.4mil wasn’t ‘half of what I gave up’ he’s actually referring to opportunity cost of what he could have made as a criminal, not monies he actually forefitted/paid himself. So it’s a misleading statement. He never gave up a cent and was paid by the Canadian G $2.4 mil over TWO YEARS to be a CI. He sued when he wasn’t paid and won.

$2.4 mil over two years is a DISGRACEFULL amount of money for a CI to be paid.

Do we know why he flipped in the first place?

That amount is out and out bribing a witness. A crime by the authorities just like a defendant bribing a juror.

[Wiseguy]

So is your assertion that Dominic Violi fabricated everything on wiretap: the group, the number 30, Florida meeting, 'making history?' And if he has, why have the authorities submitted this into evidence? If you were a defense attorney, how would you challenge the submitted evidence?

I believe he was made underboss though the position doesn't mean much at this point.

Given what we know about the number of members the feds had the family at in 2006 (23), how many have died since then, and the unliklihood of them even replacing the ones that have died - let alone getting back up to 30+ - I take his comment with a grain of salt. Most likely an off the cuff statement rather than an actual comment on how many members they really have.

Can you really picture me being a defense attorney? Might as well just sell my soul to the Devil.

[Angelo Santino]

So is your assertion that Dominic Violi fabricated everything on wiretap: the group, the number 30, Florida meeting, 'making history?' And if he has, why have the authorities submitted this into evidence? If you were a defense attorney, how would you challenge the submitted evidence?

I believe he was made underboss though the position doesn't mean much at this point.

Given what we know about the number of members the feds had the family at in 2006 (23), how many have died since then, and the unliklihood of them even replacing the ones that have died - let alone getting back up to 30+ - I take his comment with a grain of salt. Most likely an off the cuff statement rather than an actual comment on how many members they really have.

Can you really picture me being a defense attorney? Might as well just sell my soul to the Devil.

So you believe Dominic Violi but assert that since he's Underboss of what seems to be a dormant/nonexistent/apparently inactive group it's irrelevant or has marginal significance? This brings us back to the topic of what constitutes a viable entity.

This reminds me of John Tronolone who became 'boss' over what was left of Cleveland, and since by the early 90's there was no structure and hardly any active members he became a sort of area representative despite living in Florida for decades. I say area representative because he apparently was pushed by NY to assume the position, which due to Cleveland's status at the time was largely a formality. Or we can look at D'Elia and his 'control' over the Scranton remnants, no Family but was picked up talking with Stanfa and seemed to be in the NYC loop.

[SonnyBlackstein]

So is your assertion that Dominic Violi fabricated everything on wiretap: the group, the number 30, Florida meeting, 'making history?' And if he has, why have the authorities submitted this into evidence? If you were a defense attorney, how would you challenge the submitted evidence?

What Violi clearly meant:
“Underboss of Buffalo”: ‘Underboss of....umm, Boston, the active part. NOT PROVIDENCE, you kidding?.”
“The number 30”: ‘one’, Himself.
“Florida”: ‘Hamilton’ (North, South.... you say potato...)
“Making history”: ‘he had a meeting with himself and gave himself the promotion.’

The above ‘translations’ were sourced from Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate dictionary for budding mafioso of debunked families.

[Wiseguy]

So you believe Dominic Violi but assert that since he's Underboss of what seems to be a dormant/nonexistent/apparently inactive group it's irrelevant or has marginal significance?

Exactly.

This reminds me of John Tronolone who became 'boss' over what was left of Cleveland, and since by the early 90's there was no structure and hardly any active members he became a sort of area representative despite living in Florida for decades. I say area representative because he apparently was pushed by NY to assume the position, which due to Cleveland's status at the time was largely a formality. Or we can look at D'Elia and his 'control' over the Scranton remnants, no Family but was picked up talking with Stanfa and seemed to be in the NYC loop.

I do think it's something like that.

What Violi clearly meant:
“Underboss of Buffalo”: ‘Underboss of....umm, Boston, the active part. NOT PROVIDENCE, you kidding?.”
“The number 30”: ‘one’, Himself.
“Florida”: ‘Hamilton’ (North, South.... you say potato...)
“Making history”: ‘he had a meeting with himself and gave himself the promotion.’

Sarcasm aside, the underboss thing isn't in contention. Nominally, he is the underboss of Buffalo, though the main American side of the family is defunct.

As for 30+ members, do the math. 23 members in 2006. At least 11 members have died since then, which would leave 12 members. So, over the past 13 years they've made like 20 members? Don't think so.

[SonnyBlackstein]

As for 30+ members, do the math. 23 members in 2006. At least 11 members have died since then, which would leave 12 members. So, over the past 13 years they've made like 20 members? Don't think so.

Exactly. When Violi said 30 guys he was speaking ballpark. He actually meant, two.