John Gotti in northern Illinois?

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

This one here...



http://m.espresso.repubblica.it/attuali ... ef=RHRR-BE

Those U.S. numbers (which have been on the FBI website for years) refer to members and associates, while the figures for Palermo appear to refer to members alone. It stands to reason there are more Sicilian Mafia members and associates in Sicily than the U.S. Poor interpretation of the data by the writer of the article.

@SilentPartnerz

It's more a question of, who was ultimately directing this traffic. Cavita has come across the SAME EXACT CONFUSION I have when dealing with these situations that involve the American Families doing business with the Sicilians.

From the Pizza connection, all the way up to New Bridge and O Tremens. Even what's the other one in NY? With the Scirrippa clan, Project Solare? I think?

A lot of posters know its been a pet fascination of mine, even though they simplify it to being " Drug-Centric"... Its more like I'm trying to gain an understanding of the structure of criminal operations in North America, that are run by European Italians.

And the dynamics of how it affects the drug traffic, which DIRECTLY affects which criminal organizations rise or fall in power.

2 examples, Hells Angel's in Canada, Albanians in the UK. And also, rivalries amongst Italian clans and families.


You gotta understand, in my lifetime... I've seen 2 things happen I didnt think could happen.

1. The Mexicans surpassed the Colombians in Cocaine
2. The Calabrians surpassed the Sicilians in wealth and influence.....

IN MY LIFETIME!! And really, it's more like 15-20 years or so.....

So clearly, controlling the drug trade is a powerful thing. Consistently, the 2 most powerful criminal groups the last 10 years at least has been Sinaloa over here, Ndrangheta over there.....




Both these events came about because of dynamics of the drug trade.



(Mafia members do business with other mafia members. Drug traffickers do business with Mafia, Bikers, Street gangs, Irish, Middle easterners, Wasp gangs, Asian gangs, Every COUNTRY...understand....)



It looks like they get approval from the families to operate, but they really ran their own show.

And it's why I wonder if it still works like this today, like the structure of it......

You got the same fundamental questions I do... Who's in charge? Sicily or NY, in this case Chicago?

When I say you're drug-centric, it's mainly in reference to the American LCN. Sometimes you've almost had the tail wagging the dog.

Except for the New York City area, where the Colombians still maintain a strong presence, the Mexicans of course took over distribution in most of the country. But the Mexicans obviously still need the Colombians for their cocaine supply.

"You got the same fundamental questions I do... Who's in charge? Sicily or NY, in this case Chicago?"
I'd say Sicily or Calabria are in charge of their operations and do not answer to NY; CHI or Sinaloa.
They work with whatever group enables the large scale distribution. I agree with you that the manufacture,
distribution & sales of kilos of illegal powders are the largest revenue source for OC. As far as the
NY families, the "you deal. you die" edict went out the window as a result of the Commission Case
convictions. The NY families seem to get caught selling smaller quantities of powder showing them
to be a level below the Italians. Interesting to note how the Gambino's F. Cali, D. Cefalu, P. Inzerillo
all have close ties with the Sicilians which could indicate Cali has a say in what happens in NY & may
be a partner of the Sicilians.

Generally speaking, drugs are the biggest money maker for organized crime. And while it's been one of the biggest for the American LCN, gambling has always been the biggest. At least since the end of Prohibition.

As for the "deal and die" rule, as it's been discussed many times, even before the Commission case that rule seems to have been selectively applied by even the bosses said to be most against the drug trade.

And while I do think you're correct about how the Italian groups operate today, I can't think of a past U.S. drug case involving the Sicilians that wasn't connected to the American LCN in some way. And we have yet to see a Ndrangheta case here in the U.S. that hasn't also been tied to the Americans. The point being, while they may answer to their own bosses across the Atlantic, it seems they always have had to work with, accommodate, or otherwise involve the American LCN.

I agree with your assessment. As the Sicilians and the Calabrians are operating on US soil, The American families should have some oversight or association. The same would certainly be true for any American Members operating in Italy.

[Pete]

For anyone that’s been to Rockford I have trouble seeing the “dapper don” there lol. Him meeting other bosses in Florida sounds a lot more plausible. Gotti paying a house call to one of the smaller families in the us just doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense

[cavita]

For anyone that’s been to Rockford I have trouble seeing the “dapper don” there lol. Him meeting other bosses in Florida sounds a lot more plausible. Gotti paying a house call to one of the smaller families in the us just doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense

That and the fact if he supposedly visited pre 1989 then he was still just a capo, right?

[cavita]

For anyone that’s been to Rockford I have trouble seeing the “dapper don” there lol. Him meeting other bosses in Florida sounds a lot more plausible. Gotti paying a house call to one of the smaller families in the us just doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense

That and the fact if he supposedly visited pre 1989 then he was still just a capo, right?

Scratch that. He was boss by then

[CabriniGreen]

The interesting thing ... in Donnie Brasco..

Pistone said there was some kind of Mob dispute involving Rockford too... I forget what....

This goes to the point of a major family making a visit there..... Just that alone shows it was at least POSSIBLE, I dont know if I would say PLAUSIBLE though....

[cavita]

The interesting thing ... in Donnie Brasco..

Pistone said there was some kind of Mob dispute involving Rockford too... I forget what....

This goes to the point of a major family making a visit there..... Just that alone shows it was at least POSSIBLE, I dont know if I would say PLAUSIBLE though....

It wasn't a dispute but at the request of Tony Riela of the Bonanno's, he asked the Rockford guys to make the introductions between Milwaukee and Lefty Ruggiero of the Bonanno's. Riela and Rockford went back to the 30s between themselves and still kept in touch.

[Snakes]

Before the Outfit dwindled (pre-Bob Cooley/Strawman cases) when Aiuppa and
Accardo ruled, we should all agree that those two bosses, at minimum, had to give permission
for the large scale narcotics business in the Outfit territory.
The meeting in south Florida is very interesting. So many bosses had homes there then.
LaRocca, DeCavalcante; Zammuto; & the Five Family crew bosses down there.
I would love to get my hands on bug trascripts from some of the meetings held down there.
The homes of bosses and FL capos; the Foutainbleau and Joe Sonkens restaurant must have been bugged at some time.

I went back and looked up the meeting I mentioned earlier. Informants told agents that a meeting between John Gotti (Gambino Boss), Sam Carlisi (Chicago Boss), and two unnamed representatives from the Gambino and DeCavalcante families would meet at Chelsea's Beef and Sea Restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Supposedly, Gotti was attempting to wrest interest in the LIUNA (Laborers' International Union of North America) away from the Outfit, who had controlled it since at least the late-sixties.

They were unable to determine if a meeting did, in fact, take place at Chelsea's but further intelligence revealed that a meeting did occur at Chianti's Restaurant, also in Fort Lauderdale, with representatives from six "major" LCN families attending (probably the Genovese, Gambino, Lucchese, Colombo, DeCavalcate, and Chicago families). Chianti's was a well-known Colombo hangout, frequented by Vic Orena (Colombo acting boss) among others.

[Villain]

During the 1950's the Outfit was supplied primarily by the New York Mob, with exception of some situations where the Florida faction delivered, and after that the Chicago boys distributed the product to all Midwestern cities of secondary importance, such as Omaha, Tulsa, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Iowa, Los Angeles, Houston, Denver and sometimes even in St. Louis but I dont have Rockford anywhere. This lasted until Giancana became the boss who in turn began creating his own or the Outfit's secondary connections or drug routes. During the 1960's the drug route around the Mexico border was mainly controlled by the Outfit, the Gambinos and the Bonannos

While Accardo was the boss during the late 1940s and early 50's, he mingled around many dope peddlers but when they got caught by the cops and his name was brought up, Accardo ordered everyone to be eliminated and thats why during the early 1970s when he became the top boss, he was completely against it. You see during the 70s a lot of guys were killed, over 100 i think, because of various reasons and one of those was narcotics. So I hardly believe that anyone openly dealt with it while guys like Accardo, Cerone and Alex were still alive and at the top...I didnt mention Aiuppa on purpose since according to one document, at first he stayed open minded (we dont know for how long) but later allegedly changed his mind and was also against it. So its possible that during the late 1980s Carlisi and DiFronzo kept more than few secrets from the old man Accardo, since by that time Aiuppa and Cerone were in jail while Alex was also considered an old man and stayed out of the day-to-day business decisions

[cavita]

During the 1950's the Outfit was supplied primarily by the New York Mob, with exception of some situations where the Florida faction delivered, and after that the Chicago boys distributed the product to all Midwestern cities of secondary importance, such as Omaha, Tulsa, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Iowa, Los Angeles, Houston, Denver and sometimes even in St. Louis but I dont have Rockford anywhere. This lasted until Giancana became the boss who in turn began creating his own or the Outfit's secondary connections or drug routes. During the 1960's the drug route around the Mexico border was mainly controlled by the Outfit, the Gambinos and the Bonannos

While Accardo was the boss during the late 1940s and early 50's, he mingled around many dope peddlers but when they got caught by the cops and his name was brought up, Accardo ordered everyone to be eliminated and thats why during the early 1970s when he became the top boss, he was completely against it. You see during the 70s a lot of guys were killed, over 100 i think, because of various reasons and one of those was narcotics. So I hardly believe that anyone openly dealt with it while guys like Accardo, Cerone and Alex were still alive and at the top...I didnt mention Aiuppa on purpose since according to one document, at first he stayed open minded (we dont know for how long) but later allegedly changed his mind and was also against it. So its possible that during the late 1980s Carlisi and DiFronzo kept more than few secrets from the old man Accardo, since by that time Aiuppa and Cerone were in jail while Alex was also considered an old man and stayed out of the day-to-day business decisions

Yes, Rockford doesn’t show up until February 1980 when Rockford LCN boss Joe Zammuto held a series of meetings in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida informing the Rockford group they would now be dealing in narcotics. Rockford member Joe Maggio voiced his strong opposition to this. Within two weeks after returning to Rockford, Maggio’s daughter was beaten up by a Rockford drug dealer and Maggio openly threatened this individual for the next couple months. FBI files stated the drug dealer was a relative of Zammuto’s. On April 9, 1980 Maggio was found shot to death in his vehicle on a country road on the outskirts of Rockford. Because the feds investigated Maggio’s murder and his LCN ties, they discovered this mob-run cocaine ring in May 1982.

In May 1982 the feds arrested John S. Leombruni, Michael F. Leombruni, John Bartelli, Jack Richardson, Dennis L. Salsbury, John J. Schiro, Susan Wisniewski, Israel R. Campello, all of Rockford. Manuel M. Gomez of Chicago and Luke V. Cannella of Las Vegas for running a “cocaine cartel” between Rockford, Chicago and Las Vegas. Edward Hegarty, special agent in charge of the Chicago FBI office said that Chicago was used as the staging are to distribute the cocaine to Rockford distributors. At the time of the arrests, John S. Leombruni was labeled as the ringleader and authorities stated he was the biggest cocaine dealer in Rockford at the time. Luke Cannella, formerly of Rockford and living in Las Vegas, was the son of Rockford LCN member Phil Cannella. Susan Wisniewski was a Rockford Police radio dispatcher and girlfriend of John Leombruni and she was arrested and authorities charged her with warning the group of police raids.

Now, interestingly, years ago I spoke with a Milwaukee police detective who stated that in the early to mid-80s he was investigating a drug pipeline between Rockford and Milwaukee and he found that this connection was headed by Frank A. Buscemi, son of Rockford LCN underboss Frank J. Buscemi. Frank A. Buscemi was running narcotics out of his club, the Plaza Suite, in Rockford at the time. Milwaukee was one of the cities on a long list of places that the Rockford LCN underboss had called numerous times according to the FBI.

This “Chicago connection” was probably Manuel M. Gomez but of course there had to be others involved that the feds simply couldn’t prove.

[Snakes]

Villain is right, Chicago was deep in drugs, particularly the financing of them. I'm certain it wasn't something that was advertised but I can't imagine Rockford going through Chicago without permission. Also, Villain pointed out that the seventies and eighties had a lot of murders with unknown motives. He and I are in agreement that many of them may have been street level connections for drug distribution that the bosses killed to stay insulated on the financing side of things.

[JCB1977]

Wouldn’t surprise me at all, great topic, great thread! In my research, I’m fascinated with the relationships that larger families had with smaller families. It wasn’t uncommon in any regard, it’s been demonstrated since the beginning. Especially the Calabrians and the Sicilians. I’ve seen Gotti’s name was connected to several other smaller families in my research. He definitely had tentacles. If he had any dealings with Illinois, I’m sure he was connected to Rockford. I wonder if there are any other sources to back up the CW statement.

[Villain]

@cavita thanks for the additional info, especially regarding that Gomez guy since Ive never heard of him before. I have also one Chicago guy who went by the name of Sam Sarcinelli who in turn was possibly connected to the North Side group through Ken Eto, since they owned a shop which was located in Skokie. At the time Sarcinelli was allegedly the biggest dope peddler for the Outfit by distributing large quantities of cocaine, which arrived mainly from the Fort Lauderdale/Miami area and was later distributed to points such Gary, Hammond, Atlanta, Denver, and also the Los Angeles area, where Sarcinelli maintained one of his personal residences. Two other guys who were also involved in the cocaine business at the time where the D'Andrea brothers Nick and Mario and both belonged to thee Chicago Heights crowd. In 1981, Mario D’Andrea managed to sell a pound of pure Colombian cocaine to an undercover agent and during the arrest, Mario pulled out a gun and started shooting at the agent but missed, and so the agent fired back and killed Mario. Another Outfit guy who was involved in the dope biz at the time was James Tortoriello who was located in the Ft. Lauterdale area and story goes that in 1983, his son Mark Tortoriello was fatally shot during an alleged cocaine transaction, which obviously went wrong. One year later in 1984, Tortoriello joined his deceased son, since he was found shot to death in a warehouse near the Fort Lauderdale-Holywood International Airport.

@Snakes do you have any additional info on whether Galante really visited Chicago for the second time after his release from prison in 1974? According to one Chicago Tribune article, Galante arranged two meetings, one in Chicago and one in Florida, with the Outfit’s top leadership. I stated for the second time, since back in 1958, while being on the lam, Galante visited Chicago for the first time and first went to Calumet City, an area which was under the control of the Chicago Heights faction at the time, and after that Galante went to Cicero for another meeting and later went straight back to the east coast. It also seems that Galante visited Chicago every time when some of the Outfit's members or associates were being shot down or exiled after their problems with the law regarding narcotics

[CabriniGreen]

Some real good info here... an unexpectedly good thread here...

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I like how it's been pointed out, that the SAME sicilians that were directing the heroin trade, were moving MOUNTAINS of cocaine too....

If the Americans were equal partners in dope, they really wouldnt be marginalized in the coke trade.....

Look at Old Bridge, due to thier own incompetence, the sicilians LOST these same contacts, and had to go through the most Sicilian of the Americans for the coke. Not BECAUSE they were SICILIAN, but because thier click had LONGSTANDING ties to South America, apparently STILL, even though it seems they wernt heavy in the trade.

Just highly interesting stuff.....

[Snakes]

@Snakes do you have any additional info on whether Galante really visited Chicago for the second time after his release from prison in 1974? According to one Chicago Tribune article, Galante arranged two meetings, one in Chicago and one in Florida, with the Outfit’s top leadership. I stated for the second time, since back in 1958, while being on the lam, Galante visited Chicago for the first time and first went to Calumet City, an area which was under the control of the Chicago Heights faction at the time, and after that Galante went to Cicero for another meeting and later went straight back to the east coast. It also seems that Galante visited Chicago every time when some of the Outfit's members or associates were being shot down or exiled after their problems with the law regarding narcotics

I'd have to go back and check for specifics but I am positive that there was intelligence indicating that Cerone was interested in the drug business. How accurate this information was is hard to gather because of redaction. I don't remember Galante being mentioned specifically by name but again, I'll have to check.

Also, I'm losing a ton of info because my hard drive crashed. The CDs that I used as backup (mostly CDs that the FBI initially granted my requests on) are of poor quality and constantly becoming inaccessible. So I am losing a wealth of old information that I'll have to either (a) do deep recovery on, as in running programs that can deep scan the disc (or the hard drive) and retrieve files or (b) request the files again, which is extremely demoralizing to consider.