Chicago Making Ceremonies

[Villain]

Be cool to know what book. Thanks for the feedback

I really dont know how true is this but ive read it somewhere long time ago and later i think that Antiliar mentioned the same thing so maybe he knows some more detailed info about it

[Stroccos]

When was Spilotro made? I suppose before he was sent to Vegas in '73?

I personally dont have any info on that but it is possible that he was made during the mid or late 60s. I believe that Spilotro arrived in Vegas around 71 or 72, while Rosenthal was already there by the late 60s. When Spilotro completely established himself in Vegas by 73, he also began spreading his influence even in Arizona together with Paul Schiro

In addition, Frank LaPorte was also made by Al Capone and we have one photo of the two of them followed by a bunch of other Capone gangsters. The photo was allegedly taken around September or October 1928 and according to sources this particular meeting had few main subjects...one was possibly the St Valentines Day massacre....another was probably the elevation of Jim Ammirato to boss of the Chicago Heights mob since the previous one Dominick Roberto fled to Italy by this time....and the third subject was possibly the induction ceremony of LaPorte

Also some sources say that Teets Battaglia was also made by Capone possibly around 1931

Roemer gave a date for whatever it’s worth I’d have to check the spilotro book. I thought it was 65 or something like that

I think youre right since i wasnt sure if it was 65 or possibly the late 60s. Afterall we have him hanging around the big boys such Alderisio and Cerone after 65

could it be around 62 when he whacked a few guys for the outfit? The M&M burlgers ,

[Villain]

When was Spilotro made? I suppose before he was sent to Vegas in '73?

I personally dont have any info on that but it is possible that he was made during the mid or late 60s. I believe that Spilotro arrived in Vegas around 71 or 72, while Rosenthal was already there by the late 60s. When Spilotro completely established himself in Vegas by 73, he also began spreading his influence even in Arizona together with Paul Schiro

In addition, Frank LaPorte was also made by Al Capone and we have one photo of the two of them followed by a bunch of other Capone gangsters. The photo was allegedly taken around September or October 1928 and according to sources this particular meeting had few main subjects...one was possibly the St Valentines Day massacre....another was probably the elevation of Jim Ammirato to boss of the Chicago Heights mob since the previous one Dominick Roberto fled to Italy by this time....and the third subject was possibly the induction ceremony of LaPorte

Also some sources say that Teets Battaglia was also made by Capone possibly around 1931

Roemer gave a date for whatever it’s worth I’d have to check the spilotro book. I thought it was 65 or something like that

I think youre right since i wasnt sure if it was 65 or possibly the late 60s. Afterall we have him hanging around the big boys such Alderisio and Cerone after 65

could it be around 62 when he whacked a few guys for the outfit? The M&M burlgers ,

Could be i dunno, although dont forget that some of these guys made a lot of cash and killed a lot of people but still they were made years later. As for Spilotro, he started in Melrose Park where he operated few bookmaking ops and possibly answered to Nicoletti. Story goes that while Spilotro tortured one of the guys and his eye popped out, Nicoletti ate pasta or something like that. It is also possible that Spilotros sponsors were Nicoletti or Alderisio or maybe even Mad Sam but this is just a theory

[Pogo The Clown]

If I remember right Roemer said that Mad Sam was never made because the bosses felt he was too unhinged.


Pogo

[Snakes]

If I remember right Roemer said that Mad Sam was never made because the bosses felt he was too unhinged.


Pogo

He did say that in his book but DeStefano has also appeared on FBI lists of made guys. I'm not really sure if there will ever be a definitive answer.

[Villain]

If I remember right Roemer said that Mad Sam was never made because the bosses felt he was too unhinged.


Pogo

He did say that in his book but DeStefano has also appeared on FBI lists of made guys. I'm not really sure if there will ever be a definitive answer.

Thats correct, meaning more than few FBI files has him as being member of the Chicago family. My personal belief is that Roemer held some personal grudge against some mobsters, especially Mad Sam since he had more than a dozen of reasons to feel like that lol

Mad Sam was in control over several districts with the main one being W North Av, right under Elmwood Park, which explains his close connections to the crew from that same area and also Tony Accardo. On top of that, Mad Sam was in charge of his own crew which included his brother Mario, Pete Cappelletti, the Solomon bros, Sam Gallo, Dom Carzolli, Thomas Durso, John Campion, Mike Gargano, Vito Zaccagnini, Ralph Casale, Charles Crimaldi and Herb Bltizstein. Even though I previously said that Spilotro possibly started under Nicoletti, still I also believe that later he was under Mad Sam together with his brother Mario DeStefano.

[Frank]

Do we know when John DiFronzo and Joe Addriacchi were made??

[NothingNew44]

If I remember right Roemer said that Mad Sam was never made because the bosses felt he was too unhinged.


Pogo

He did say that in his book but DeStefano has also appeared on FBI lists of made guys. I'm not really sure if there will ever be a definitive answer.

Thats correct, meaning more than few FBI files has him as being member of the Chicago
family. My personal belief is that Roemer held some personal grudge against some mobsters, especially Mad Sam since he had more than a dozen of reasons to feel like that lol

Mad Sam was in control over several districts with the main one being W North Av, right under Elmwood Park, which explains his close connections to the crew from that same area and also Tony Accardo. On top of that, Mad Sam was in charge of his own crew which included his brother Mario, Pete Cappelletti, the Solomon bros, Sam Gallo, Dom Carzolli, Thomas Durso, John Campion, Mike Gargano, Vito Zaccagnini, Ralph Casale, Charles Crimaldi and Herb Bltizstein. Even though I previously said that Spilotro possibly started under Nicoletti, still I also believe that later he was under Mad Sam together with his brother Mario DeStefano.
[/quote

Roemer was beyond subjective. He held grudges against many Outfit members and then held many in high regard. Antoinette Giancana had a deep visceral disdain for Roemer for this very nature of the man he was. He continually hailed the praises for Accardo and then berated the antics of her father and many others. Roemer claimed Cerone should’ve been handed the Outfit and Joey Doves was a baboon. I enjoy Roemers work and opinion but every thing he said needs to be viewed in a specific context.

[Stroccos]

When was Spilotro made? I suppose before he was sent to Vegas in '73?

I personally dont have any info on that but it is possible that he was made during the mid or late 60s. I believe that Spilotro arrived in Vegas around 71 or 72, while Rosenthal was already there by the late 60s. When Spilotro completely established himself in Vegas by 73, he also began spreading his influence even in Arizona together with Paul Schiro

In addition, Frank LaPorte was also made by Al Capone and we have one photo of the two of them followed by a bunch of other Capone gangsters. The photo was allegedly taken around September or October 1928 and according to sources this particular meeting had few main subjects...one was possibly the St Valentines Day massacre....another was probably the elevation of Jim Ammirato to boss of the Chicago Heights mob since the previous one Dominick Roberto fled to Italy by this time....and the third subject was possibly the induction ceremony of LaPorte

Also some sources say that Teets Battaglia was also made by Capone possibly around 1931

Roemer gave a date for whatever it’s worth I’d have to check the spilotro book. I thought it was 65 or something like that

I think youre right since i wasnt sure if it was 65 or possibly the late 60s. Afterall we have him hanging around the big boys such Alderisio and Cerone after 65

could it be around 62 when he whacked a few guys for the outfit? The M&M burlgers ,

Could be i dunno, although dont forget that some of these guys made a lot of cash and killed a lot of people but still they were made years later. As for Spilotro, he started in Melrose Park where he operated few bookmaking ops and possibly answered to Nicoletti. Story goes that while Spilotro tortured one of the guys and his eye popped out, Nicoletti ate pasta or something like that. It is also possible that Spilotros sponsors were Nicoletti or Alderisio or maybe even Mad Sam but this is just a theory

those are some validpoints , he was at least made by 1974 so we can back from there
would 72-74 make any sense shortly before or right after he got to vegas ?

[Confederate]

Joseph Lombardo wasn't made in 1973, that's when he was promoted to caporegime to succeed Battaglia. Alva Johnson Rogers testified to this. It's suspected that he was made after the Manny Skar killing.

All that is true except Alva Johnson Rogers never referred to Lombardo as a "Caporegime". That is a New York term. Lombardo was referred to as a "Boss", meaning that he was one of the 4 big Territory Bosses. In the same way that Accardo was never called a "Consigliere". Those are New York terms being applied to these people according to Villain and my research.

I didn't say Alva Johnson Rogers used the word "caporegime," but that's the position he was promoted to and is the label that the feds use, so I used it for simplicity and not for semantic nit-picking.

As for the use of the word "caporegime," it was not commonly used but it was used sometimes: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... caporegime

The terms boss (of a crew), group leader, caporegime, capodecina, capo (of a crew), skipper, captain and lieutenant are all used interchangeably by the different Families. If someone from Chicago was telling a New York leader that someone was promoted to boss of a crew in the 1970s or earlier, he probably would use a term that New York used to explain. Some Families probably also had a preference whether to use the term "regime" or "decina" over "crew" or "group."

They might be used interchangeably by the different Families, but Chicago used different terms almost always and the word "Capo" and the word "Caporegime" are two different words last time I checked the Dictionary. Not nitpicking at all and that was my only point. Not so difficult to believe when you consider Chicago never used the term "Consigliere", didn't use the regular "Making Ceremony " for at least awhile and had some very powerful "Non Italian Members" in high positions (Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex). The structure of the Outfit years ago was also different than the "other Families". Above the Crew Bosses were 4 "Territory Bosses". New York didn't have that kind of structure.

Lastly, you would not have any idea what "term" a Chicago guy would have used in the 1970's to tell a New York guy that someone in Chicago was elevated to be a Boss of a Crew. That is just your opinion.

[Confederate]

If I remember right Roemer said that Mad Sam was never made because the bosses felt he was too unhinged.


Pogo

I think Mad Sam was "pulling Roemer's leg" in the same way he pissed in Roemer's coffee.

[Confederate]

According to Roemer, Spilotro was considered "made" when he left Mad Sam and went under Lombardo who was with Alderisio. Also, according to Roemer, guys in Chicago who were considered "made" were in some kind of supervisory position within a Crew as opposed to being on salary or commission. So, it could be that when Spilotro went with Lombardo, he was now in some kind of manager position and maybe there was a handshake and a dinner for him and that was it. Nobody really knows what kind of "Ceremony" was used, if there even was one, for his recognition as being "made" back in the 1960's. It could have simply been a handshake and a promotion within the Crew?

[Villain]

According to Roemer, Spilotro was considered "made" when he left Mad Sam and went under Lombardo who was with Alderisio. Also, according to Roemer, guys in Chicago who were considered "made" were in some kind of supervisory position within a Crew as opposed to being on salary or commission. So, it could be that when Spilotro went with Lombardo, he was now in some kind of manager position and maybe there was a handshake and a dinner for him and that was it. Nobody really knows what kind of "Ceremony" was used, if there even was one, for his recognition as being "made" back in the 1960's. It could have simply been a handshake and a promotion within the Crew?

Dont forget that there were also some type of gatherings when somebody went up...this is something for which later ill try to make a list and post it here

[Antiliar]

They might be used interchangeably by the different Families, but Chicago used different terms almost always and the word "Capo" and the word "Caporegime" are two different words last time I checked the Dictionary. Not nitpicking at all and that was my only point. Not so difficult to believe when you consider Chicago never used the term "Consigliere", didn't use the regular "Making Ceremony " for at least awhile and had some very powerful "Non Italian Members" in high positions (Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex). The structure of the Outfit years ago was also different than the "other Families". Above the Crew Bosses were 4 "Territory Bosses". New York didn't have that kind of structure.

Lastly, you would not have any idea what "term" a Chicago guy would have used in the 1970's to tell a New York guy that someone in Chicago was elevated to be a Boss of a Crew. That is just your opinion.

A) Yes, they are two different words, which is why I wrote that they are interchangeable. If they were the same words there would be no need to write that.

B) You were nitpicking, and you have a history of nitpicking my posts ever since you pm'd me with your racist rants.

C) Lastly, unless you are a long-distance mind reader you don't know what I have any ideas of. You don't know who I've met, who I've interviewed, who I know, or what I've read except for those occasions where I wrote it down here in this group, another group, or in my articles.

[Confederate]

They might be used interchangeably by the different Families, but Chicago used different terms almost always and the word "Capo" and the word "Caporegime" are two different words last time I checked the Dictionary. Not nitpicking at all and that was my only point. Not so difficult to believe when you consider Chicago never used the term "Consigliere", didn't use the regular "Making Ceremony " for at least awhile and had some very powerful "Non Italian Members" in high positions (Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex). The structure of the Outfit years ago was also different than the "other Families". Above the Crew Bosses were 4 "Territory Bosses". New York didn't have that kind of structure.

Lastly, you would not have any idea what "term" a Chicago guy would have used in the 1970's to tell a New York guy that someone in Chicago was elevated to be a Boss of a Crew. That is just your opinion.

A) Yes, they are two different words, which is why I wrote that they are interchangeable. If they were the same words there would be no need to write that.

B) You were nitpicking, and you have a history of nitpicking my posts ever since you pm'd me with your racist rants.

C) Lastly, unless you are a long-distance mind reader you don't know what I have any ideas of. You don't know who I've met, who I've interviewed, who I know, or what I've read except for those occasions where I wrote it down here in this group, another group, or in my articles.

1). You're dead wrong. "Caporegime" and "Capo" CANNOT always be used interchangeably. For example: Carlo Gambino would never have been called a "Caporegime" when he was the Boss of the Gambino Family but he could have been called a "Capo". In addition, I was talking about Chicago where they rarely ever used the word "Caporegime".

2). I wasn't nitpicking. Even other posters saw the difference and know Chicago rarely uses that term "Caporegime". You just don't like being corrected or challenged in any way. You made PLENTY of Racist rants to me in your PM'S and I told you to never PM me again.

3). You Always use that line about a Book you are writing with all these secrets in it every time you are backed into a corner. Well, please FINISH your book so we can see all your secrets that you don't post on the board.
In particular, prove that somebody from the Chicago Outfit told somebody from New York that a particular person was promoted to a Crew Boss and they were referred to as a "Caporegime". If you have that info, then let's see it. It's easy to always fall back on "secrets" that only you know when you can't verify something.