by B. » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 am
Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:44 am
I think my confusion arises from the idea that we had "member-informants" in Chicago who were admitting to FBI agents that they were members when in actuality, they weren't. This probably had something to do with the Outfit not utilizing a "traditional" making ceremony for several years, even though there they were certainly still admitting members into the LCN. The "false" member-informants were most likely conflating their idea of being admitted into the Outfit as a structural body with being inducted into the LCN. They were also identifying other "members" who were more than likely not fully initiated themselves. Due to this, there are several members on the older lists that we now know were never made or were made at a later period in time.
Great points. Chicago is a different story for sure and you reminded me of the Jewish informant with the Italian name who ID'd a huge list of names and seemed to suggest he was made. I have no clue myself who in Chicago was made vs. who wasn't on those lists and if sources lied about being made that's a whole other mess.
Different cities were also subject to their local FBI office and the standards were supposed to be pretty universal but I'm sure certain offices had their own "culture", especially if the supervisors were loose about it.
The 1960s lists for places like New York, Philly, Milwaukee, Bay Area CA, LA, etc. who had extremely reliable member informants were solid for the most part and the official lists for those cities typically only sourced from confirmed member sources/tapes. I wonder if there are other examples like Chicago.
[quote=Snakes post_id=216962 time=1641563069 user_id=66]
I think my confusion arises from the idea that we had "member-informants" in Chicago who were admitting to FBI agents that they were members when in actuality, they weren't. This probably had something to do with the Outfit not utilizing a "traditional" making ceremony for several years, even though there they were certainly still admitting members into the LCN. The "false" member-informants were most likely conflating their idea of being admitted into the Outfit as a structural body with being inducted into the LCN. They were also identifying other "members" who were more than likely not fully initiated themselves. Due to this, there are several members on the older lists that we now know were never made or were made at a later period in time.
[/quote]
Great points. Chicago is a different story for sure and you reminded me of the Jewish informant with the Italian name who ID'd a huge list of names and seemed to suggest he was made. I have no clue myself who in Chicago was made vs. who wasn't on those lists and if sources lied about being made that's a whole other mess.
Different cities were also subject to their local FBI office and the standards were supposed to be pretty universal but I'm sure certain offices had their own "culture", especially if the supervisors were loose about it.
The 1960s lists for places like New York, Philly, Milwaukee, Bay Area CA, LA, etc. who had extremely reliable member informants were solid for the most part and the official lists for those cities typically only sourced from confirmed member sources/tapes. I wonder if there are other examples like Chicago.