Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

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Expand view Topic review: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Rocco » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:35 am

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:23 pm the guy sal profaci was famously recorded saying to his lawyer friend about papa smur wiseguys dont sue wisegusy, wiseguys kill wiseguys. so he was acknoowledging smurf was somebody. didnt the westside win the sitdown to
Yes they did. Carmine was a huge money maker and more importantly had the greatest influence over carting in NJ wiseguy or not. So if the Genovese didn't claim him the Gambinos(who at one time were big into carting in NJ in the 70s and 80s) would have claimed him. LCN was just part of that industry when Carmine was coming up. So you had to be with someone.

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by West Coast1 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:35 pm

or that he was def with somebody huge

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Pmac2 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:23 pm

the guy sal profaci was famously recorded saying to his lawyer friend about papa smur wiseguys dont sue wisegusy, wiseguys kill wiseguys. so he was acknoowledging smurf was somebody. didnt the westside win the sitdown to

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by West Coast1 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:49 pm

possibly, but with no record and not being made and loyal as fuck those are the best people for both worlds.

rocco- that's a great business deal

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Pogo The Clown » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:48 am

Or maybe they didn't want to make him. If he was made it could limit the amount of money they could get from him.


Pogo

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Rocco » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:48 am

West Coast1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:18 pm There are many guys who got rich as associates...
they could never be made because of nationality etc. it was a blessing to them and the families as well
some of them are the most important ones. They were still family, they were trusted and could be trusted.
Mostly childhood friends, the only people you can trust
now neighborhoods and family structure is falling apart
bye bye
it's over
You actually have a better chance of getting rich and staying out of jail if your NOT made. I think they right way to look at this is that Franco's long term business partner in carting was the Genovese Family...

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by West Coast1 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:18 pm

There are many guys who got rich as associates...
they could never be made because of nationality etc. it was a blessing to them and the families as well
some of them are the most important ones. They were still family, they were trusted and could be trusted.
Mostly childhood friends, the only people you can trust
now neighborhoods and family structure is falling apart
bye bye
it's over

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by SonnyBlackstein » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:06 pm

It’s a good guess he turned it down.

A guy that age, kicking up god knows, with that influence in the industry? He wants his button he’s getting it.

Guy got to die in his own bed because he turned it down. A made guy, likely Capo with his resume and $$, would got a ten year bid in ‘15.
An associate? One and change...

Smart golden goose

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by TommyGambino » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:52 pm

They would have made him donkeys years ago if that was the case, maybe he didn't want it, who knows.

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Wiseguy » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:43 pm

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:26 pm I guess we can only speculate. I swore those when vincent Esposito was indicted the other 2 guys they said were la cosa nostra soldiers. And the feds know that he was there capo but for some weird reason they put hes a associate in the paper work. I think they made papa smurf when he got out from the last bid. It also easier for the family to keep closer eyes on his racket. He was basically the equivalent of jimmy brown in the gambinos and avelllino in the luchese. Except that guy allie shades caught the brunt of the first indictment
Arena and Giovinco were identified as soldiers. Esposito a "high-ranking and influential member" based on him managing a family slush fund and being in possession of member lists. He was never identified as a captain.

Allie Shades was a made guy and captain, and therefore the equivalent of Failla or Avellino. Not Franco. You'll probably have less occasion for confusion if you don't resort to speculation when there are facts available.

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Pmac2 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:26 pm

I guess we can only speculate. I swore those when vincent Esposito was indicted the other 2 guys they said were la cosa nostra soldiers. And the feds know that he was there capo but for some weird reason they put hes a associate in the paper work. I think they made papa smurf when he got out from the last bid. It also easier for the family to keep closer eyes on his racket. He was basically the equivalent of jimmy brown in the gambinos and avelllino in the luchese. Except that guy allie shades caught the brunt of the first indictment

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Tonyd621 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:33 pm

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:25 am i think the family induct him. the guys brought them millions and went to jail for them. i can only imagine how many jobs he got for knickleheads in that family as favors. if they inducted a guy for being the school bus union president this guy must have got it. they have to reward it. i wouldnt doubt who ever his capo was just pulled him aside burned a tissue and said your now a friend. i know he was indicted as a associte but looks at chins son the one caught with the 4million in cash and lists of proposed members. some reason in his indictment they listed a few guys as lcn members but for some reason the kept saying hes a associate. its some smokescreen shit but i would bet papa smuf probaly got inducted into the westside in the last 10yrs.
I agree. Hes been loyal, and brings in money. Those are two things that are most important.

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Adam » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:29 pm

I've always been interested in the Stanfa tapes with Salvatore Profaci trying to settle the dispute Franco had with Salvatore Avena. But the point where Profaci was pretty casually saying he was close to killing Franco. Now they bullshit all the time, but it didn't read like a joke. Wonder how that would have played out.

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Rocco » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:25 pm

" reputed Genovese Crime Family boss " This is false . Carmine was never made. He was always assigned to a Genovese Soldier. In the 80s that guy was Tony Scaffidi. I have seen nothing else that states Carmine is made. Carmine was "owned" by the Genovese family.

Re: Carmine "Papa Smurf" Franco dead at 85

by Wiseguy » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:53 am

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:25 am i think the family induct him. the guys brought them millions and went to jail for them. i can only imagine how many jobs he got for knickleheads in that family as favors. if they inducted a guy for being the school bus union president this guy must have got it. they have to reward it. i wouldnt doubt who ever his capo was just pulled him aside burned a tissue and said your now a friend. i know he was indicted as a associte but looks at chins son the one caught with the 4million in cash and lists of proposed members. some reason in his indictment they listed a few guys as lcn members but for some reason the kept saying hes a associate. its some smokescreen shit but i would bet papa smuf probaly got inducted into the westside in the last 10yrs.
If Franco was made, the indictment would have said so. And they identified Vincent Esposito as a "high ranking member" in his case.

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