THE BLACK HAND FORUM

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 am I’m of the opinion this blue collar/white collar faction divide is mostly bullshit emanating from Gotti’s bullshit that that was a driving force in his ascension.
John wacked Paul because of the Ruggerio drug tapes and he knew he and Gene were going to be clipped. That’s why they hit Paul.
The ‘justification’ of Paul being white collar, family divide is, in my opinion, simply to cover up the above and mostly myth grown and fostered by gotti.
I’ve no doubt Dellacroce perhaps wanted the spot and met with Paul over it, but the idea the family was divided among crews posing various allegiance to one ‘side’ or the other, I think is bullshit.

Opinion.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:02 am Don't really see how Dellacroce could have been surprised Castellano was chosen to be Boss. As we know Castellano was serving as the Acting Boss since 1967 and was defacto Boss by 1975 with Carlo's health taking a turn for the worse. I think Dellacroce being angry at being passed over was more media hype than anything.


Pogo

HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:43 pm Obviously, the both of them didn´t like eachother but like I said above, there was no war between them.

I don´t think it was Castellano who promoted Gotti but Dellacroce. That´s the beauty of the deal he had with Castellano. He could do whatever he wanted with the two decinas that was reporting to him. We saw that for example in the case of Mike Caiazza, it was Dellacroce who shelved him, not Castellano, after Caiazza had appointed Buddy Laforte acting captain without consulting Neil. So it looks like Dellacroce had a free reign with the two captains reporting to him.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:59 am

Lupara wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:55 am Who do you think would've taken over as acting (?) boss?

Paul had Tommy Gambino or Bilotti in mind no?

Interesting scenario. Gotti may still have made a move on Bilotti, but then Paul would've ordered him killed from prison, and with Gigante on his side Gotti would've probably be killed instead.

Whay do you think?

Originally it seems that it was going to be a ruling panel with Tommy Gambino, Bilotti and Gotti. Soon after Gotti was dropped from consideration (likely due to the mounting trouble with his crew and the tapes). It was Castellanos plan that Tommy Gambino would be Acting Boss and Bilotti UnderBoss. Though that was with the knowledge that Dellacroce was dying. If he doesn't die maybe BIlotti only become the Acting UnderBoss? Though I don't imagine Dellacroce keeping his rank for long with a life sentence. If he lives maybe Gotti gets demoted and his crew disbanded since I believe that was Castellanos intention. Was it ever confirmed that Castellano was planning to have Gotti killed?


Pogo

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:59 amWas it ever confirmed that Castellano was planning to have Gotti killed?

Lupara wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:55 am Who do you think would've taken over as acting (?) boss?

Paul had Tommy Gambino or Bilotti in mind no?

Interesting scenario. Gotti may still have made a move on Bilotti, but then Paul would've ordered him killed from prison, and with Gigante on his side Gotti would've probably be killed instead.

Whay do you think?

HairyKnuckles wrote:

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:20 pm

Frank wrote:

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 am I’m of the opinion this blue collar/white collar faction divide is mostly bullshit emanating from Gotti’s bullshit that that was a driving force in his ascension.
John wacked Paul because of the Ruggerio drug tapes and he knew he and Gene were going to be clipped. That’s why they hit Paul.
The ‘justification’ of Paul being white collar, family divide is, in my opinion, simply to cover up the above and mostly myth grown and fostered by gotti.
I’ve no doubt Dellacroce perhaps wanted the spot and met with Paul over it, but the idea the family was divided among crews posing various allegiance to one ‘side’ or the other, I think is bullshit.

Opinion.

I believe you are correct, in that Gotti was in a kill or be killed position. But I believe he did take advantage of the fact that there was two main factions to the family. Carlo I believe let Dellacrocce run his faction of the Family.

So who other than Dellacroce and his crew belonged to this faction? Weren't the remaining Anastasia guys a minority group in the family with the few who contested Carlo's installment being killed? How come Dellacroce was given so much power for his role if he represented a minority faction in the family that could've simply be pushed aside?

It seems to me that both loyalists groups were relatively small with the majority of the family on the fence.

If I'm wrong then I would like someone to provide me an outline of the division within the family.

Well, basically in the "Manhattan faction" were the ones who had come up under Neil when he was a captain and later underboss. With time, his influence grew and was allowed two caporegimes directly answering to him. Joe N. Gallo had something similiar with atleast five captains reporting to him. Mike Caiazza and Carmine Fatico were the two captains directly under Dellacroce. Their regimes consisted mostly of made guys and assocaites who had previously been under Neil. Around 1983/1984 Caiazza was replaced and shelved and the Fatico crew had been taken over by Gotti.

It´s wrong to label the Family in two different factions like there was a war going on.There was no war. And I´m not sure where the labels "white collar faction" and "blue collar faction" origins from. Both Castellano and Dellacroce had underlings who were well versed in both types of crime. It seems it has been overblown by posters on these forums who were hoping to get real life out of a Mafia video game. First time I heard about the "Manhattan faction" versus the "Brooklyn faction" was when Dom Montiglio talked about it in his book and in a documentary. From that, the political and (if you may) the philosophical differences between Castellano and Dellacroce got overblown.

Pogo The Clown wrote:He was indicted in the Commission case. He was also indicted in the Gambino Hierarchy case in 1984 and another separate racketeering case in 1985. If he didn't die he would have gone to prison for life in 1986.


Pogo

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:20 pm

Frank wrote:

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 am I’m of the opinion this blue collar/white collar faction divide is mostly bullshit emanating from Gotti’s bullshit that that was a driving force in his ascension.
John wacked Paul because of the Ruggerio drug tapes and he knew he and Gene were going to be clipped. That’s why they hit Paul.
The ‘justification’ of Paul being white collar, family divide is, in my opinion, simply to cover up the above and mostly myth grown and fostered by gotti.
I’ve no doubt Dellacroce perhaps wanted the spot and met with Paul over it, but the idea the family was divided among crews posing various allegiance to one ‘side’ or the other, I think is bullshit.

Opinion.

I believe you are correct, in that Gotti was in a kill or be killed position. But I believe he did take advantage of the fact that there was two main factions to the family. Carlo I believe let Dellacrocce run his faction of the Family.

So who other than Dellacroce and his crew belonged to this faction? Weren't the remaining Anastasia guys a minority group in the family with the few who contested Carlo's installment being killed? How come Dellacroce was given so much power for his role if he represented a minority faction in the family that could've simply be pushed aside?

It seems to me that both loyalists groups were relatively small with the majority of the family on the fence.

If I'm wrong then I would like someone to provide me an outline of the division within the family.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:12 pm He was indicted in the Commission case. He was also indicted in the Gambino Hierarchy case in 1984 and another separate racketeering case in 1985. If he didn't die he would have gone to prison for life in 1986.


Pogo