THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:33 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 am What was their first racket, packing fudge?


Pogo

You and those fuckin Soprano quotes, lol. You almost caught another one of my long-winded diatribes about the mob being a working class organization before I remembered the reference and we're discussing Frisco.

Extorsion, robbery, counterfeiting, murder, insurance fraud, kidnapping for ransom are the standard for 1900-1910 for what members dabbled in. I'll say dabbled because they worked legitimate jobs. Not as fronts but as a way of making ends meet. This was before bootlegging and gambling appeared onto the scene so everyone was scraping. Most of them came from agricultural backgrounds so the elite of this "criminal fraternity" were semi-legitimate business owners with influence in their respective industries be it ice, wines or produce stores. I don't think any one of them envisioned a middle-class lifestyle derived solely from criminal activity anymore than people in the 1980's imagining working from home via the internet. We have the fortune of hindsight.

Carlo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:17 pm

Stroccos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:43 pm

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:03 pm

Carlo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:10 pm A new book about the Society of the Banana has just been released called 'Ohio's Black Hand Syndicate: The Birth of Organized Crime in America' by David Meyers and Elise Meyers Walker.

Can’t wait to read it. I’ve read about that case.

I will be ordering that as well, anything on mazzola I wonder ?

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:03 pm

Carlo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:10 pm A new book about the Society of the Banana has just been released called 'Ohio's Black Hand Syndicate: The Birth of Organized Crime in America' by David Meyers and Elise Meyers Walker.

Can’t wait to read it. I’ve read about that case.

Carlo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:10 pm A new book about the Society of the Banana has just been released called 'Ohio's Black Hand Syndicate: The Birth of Organized Crime in America' by David Meyers and Elise Meyers Walker.

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:01 pm Fell in love with the early stuff about 3 years back primarily because of my own genealogy project, it’s the most interesting history because we are examining the roots of OC in this country. Fascinating stuff, keep it coming. Looking forward to that Black Hand Book about the Lima brothers in Marion, OH regarding that multi state case. That was a pretty fascinating story.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 am

Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:56 am

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:45 pmWe should split that file we wanted a few years back
It's one of the oldest groups in the union, mid to late 1870's after the cities of Boston and St Louis. Largely forgotten now alongside N'Orleans because they petered out earlier. But in terms of who this "old rappresentante" was, we have Lanza there at the time Gentile was said to have visited, but Lanza was born in 1872 so he would have been 49 in 1921 with Gentile being 13 years his junior. Life expectancy in 1920 was 58.8 years so maybe age 50 was considered "old" in 1921. And he also would have only have been boss for one year by the time Uncle Nick visited him, freshly expatriated from NYC. The alternative is Lanza was not boss yet and some "old rappresentante" escaped scrutiny.

Lastly,
1 my researches took me to San Francisco which, by the 1900's, seem to have connections to San Jose Italo colonies there. Regardless of whether or not a San Jo LCN group was made official in the 1940's, the potential was there - like in Rochester - at a much earlier point.
2 Nick Sylvester of the 1910 Morello-Lupo counterfeiting case, got released early by supplying Flynn with info and relocated to SF and I believe he became a private detective.

What was their first racket, packing fudge?


Pogo

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 am What was their first racket, packing fudge?


Pogo

Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:56 am

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:45 pmWe should split that file we wanted a few years back
It's one of the oldest groups in the union, mid to late 1870's after the cities of Boston and St Louis. Largely forgotten now alongside N'Orleans because they petered out earlier. But in terms of who this "old rappresentante" was, we have Lanza there at the time Gentile was said to have visited, but Lanza was born in 1872 so he would have been 49 in 1921 with Gentile being 13 years his junior. Life expectancy in 1920 was 58.8 years so maybe age 50 was considered "old" in 1921. And he also would have only have been boss for one year by the time Uncle Nick visited him, freshly expatriated from NYC. The alternative is Lanza was not boss yet and some "old rappresentante" escaped scrutiny.

Lastly,
1 my researches took me to San Francisco which, by the 1900's, seem to have connections to San Jose Italo colonies there. Regardless of whether or not a San Jo LCN group was made official in the 1940's, the potential was there - like in Rochester - at a much earlier point.
2 Nick Sylvester of the 1910 Morello-Lupo counterfeiting case, got released early by supplying Flynn with info and relocated to SF and I believe he became a private detective.

What was their first racket, packing fudge?


Pogo

B. wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:48 am A few things after re-reading it:



- Gentile also talks about Joe Piazza, who he says was a young man during the above events, obviously living in the SF area at the time. What year did the Lonardo "Joe Piazza" flee from Cleveland? Was it early 1920s?