THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Adam wrote:So I'm trying to figure out how important and influential Bufalino really was and I'm curious on other posters' opinions. Finally got around to reading "The Quiet Don" which I didn't find to be that great which is what prompted me thinking about it. So I went through "I Heard You Paint Houses" again and the 1980 Pennsylvania Crime Commission Report(and if you haven't read it and are interested in Pennsylvania organized crime it is a must read) again and even Fratianno's claimed relationship with him in Last Mafioso and I'm kind of conflicted on how influential he really was. I'll point out that I understand that Fratiannos was a name dropping liar who embellished his entire life and I personally believe he committed perjury while testifying. And "I Heard You Paint Houses" was horribly researched and Sheeran was clearly lying about a great many things in that book. And I don't for a second believe the theory in the Pennsylvania Crime Commission report that Bufalino was running his family and the Buffalo and Genovese families. And the theory that Bufalino was involved in the Kennedy assassination is laughable to me. That being said here are some things that I just find confusing.

Why was Bufalino personally trying to get money from Jack Napoli? And he got recorded doing it And then Bufalino personally asked Fratianno(who he didn't even know) to find Napoli so he could be killed? And I'll grant you that Fratianno may have lied about that, but they also have another guy Stephen Fox who claimed that Bufalino approached him while in jail and also tried to get him to kill Napoli. Doesn't seem smart for a powerful boss.

Pennsylvania Crime Commission in 1980 suggested that Bufalino's organization was possibly more influential than Philly(which to me is ridiculous) and had 35 members. Now they were almost all really really old, but a little over a decade later it seems like the family was just William D'Elia. Now that's fine if they never made any new members, which they probably didn't, but there doesn't even seem to be an organization anymore. I may be mistaken, but it didn't seem to be D'Elia and his associates, it just seemed to be D'Elia. So I don't see how a powerful organization just disappears in that short amount of time.

One thing that does throw me off is Charles Allen's testimony about the murder of Francis Marino the Philadelphia labor organizer in 1976. Now he claims that Bruno said the murder couldn't happen but that Bufalino said to go ahead and do it(this is all via Sheeran by the way). Now I'll grant that's pretty bold to do in another Family's city, but I'm not sure if that's Bufalino being respected enough to pull it off or if that's just people doing whatever they wanted regardless of what Angelo Bruno said. Which is kind of how I feel about how respected Bruno was which is better done in an entirely different thread.

I'll also note that I really don't believe Sheeran's claim on the Hoffa killing at all. I'm not even one of those people who buys the idea that Sheeran is telling most but not all of the story or is intentionally changing certain facts. I just don't buy that. Also claiming the Gallo and Briguglio murders was just too much for me. But that's just me.

So I'm interested in other people's ideas on Bufalino.

Adam

OlBlueEyesClub wrote:There arent any law enforcement produced lists around. But there many made by researchers whom have done a pretty decent job, I think, of tracking attendants.

OlBlueEyesClub wrote:

Dwalin2014 wrote:

faffy444 wrote:during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

This can explain why the convictions weren't upheld and why only a part of them were convicted, but what I don't get is why didn't they bring enough cops to capture ALL of them, if they knew about the meeting beforehand? At least they could identify everybody, make conclusions about the importance of each one, based on who did attend and who didn't etc. Instead, they let many escape through the "net", not being there enough cops to block everybody, so the identities of many of the attendees can be only guessed.

If I'm not mistaken, none of the attendants whom were taken into police custody were never formally charged of anything. So there wouldn't be any needs for convictions.

Dwalin2014 wrote:

faffy444 wrote:during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

This can explain why the convictions weren't upheld and why only a part of them were convicted, but what I don't get is why didn't they bring enough cops to capture ALL of them, if they knew about the meeting beforehand? At least they could identify everybody, make conclusions about the importance of each one, based on who did attend and who didn't etc. Instead, they let many escape through the "net", not being there enough cops to block everybody, so the identities of many of the attendees can be only guessed.

Calogero "Colagio" Consagra
* Soldier
* Born 1870
* Immigrated 1903
* Early black hander, active in 1910's

Luigi "Louis" Consagra
* Soldier
* Born 1891
* Immigrated in 1909
* Relative of Calogero
* Joined him in the Black Hand

faffy444 wrote:what probable cause did they have to raid in the first place ? none.

faffy444 wrote:during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

Pogo The Clown wrote:I thought it was always Frank Costello who was rumored to have been the one to tip FF the cops as payback against Genovese? Though personally I think, like Raven said, that the cops just came upon it by accident.


Pogo

willychichi wrote:Also is there any truth in that Lansky tipped of the State Police about the Apalachin meeting at Barbara's place because he was trying to undermine Genovese power grab?

B. wrote:Not to take away from your Bufalino topic, but on a related note -- how important was Joseph Barbara, who preceded Bufalino as boss? Also what was Bufalino's relationship to Barbara like?

Barbara was yet another Castellammarese boss of a non-NYC family, so like a handful of others who were either from CDG, Trapani, or otherwise affiliated with the future Bonanno family, he became a boss outside of NY seemingly out of nowhere.

Is there any truth to the idea that Barbara had been a Buffalo capodecina who was given his own family?

There is so much about Bufalino out there, but aside from Apalachin and some general info related to that, I haven't seen a solid rundown on when/how Joe Barbara became a boss and what he was up to pre-Apalachin.