THE BLACK HAND FORUM

HoagieNose wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:23 pm I think there is a distinction between shelved and retired. There’s guys who seem retired but are still respected and hang around with the family. And there are certain shelved guys who just totally are gone from the life.

If you are shelved nobody in the mob can made bussinesses with you,you are like a pariah and this was the reason why Barone,a loyal genovese soldier after 5 decade in the mob flipped becausecwas shelved obly because refused to give a no show job to the Gigante'son.
While be retired means that you become inactive but you can still made bussiness with the wiseguys if you want.

I remember a genovese made man that despite was in his 80s speaking with young wiseguys said that he would whack someone if the bosses would ordered it,and the others said "that is a thing of young wiseguys".

You just gotta put in 25yrs and record over 1,900 hrs your last year

HoagieNose wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:23 pm I think there is a distinction between shelved and retired. There’s guys who seem retired but are still respected and hang around with the family. And there are certain shelved guys who just totally are gone from the life.

Caridi is retired according to Pennisi. I think a lot of guys who were around since the early 80s are probably semi-retired.

I think there is a distinction between shelved and retired. There’s guys who seem retired but are still respected and hang around with the family. And there are certain shelved guys who just totally are gone from the life.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:46 am

Rocco wrote:Not only can you retire..you can be a rat and live in the open right in NY like John Alite, Dom Cicale, PJ Pisciotti and countless others. The glory days are over...today's mob is just trying to stay out of jail and make a few bucks.

Yeah even if you don't have permission you can just retire on your own. It's not like they will do anything to you. If they can't even bring themselves to whack informants living out in the open in their area they are not going to go to the trouble of whacking a guy who chooses to stay home and watch tv. The mob is pretty much toothless these days.

East Bronx wrote:Go in alive and come out dead

...and it's your best friend who does it.


Pogo

Or your father....
and these people want loyalty?

HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:01 am Due to special circumstances, yes members can fully retire. Gotti Jr comes to mind. Old members can also retire (being inactive), but they are still members and can be called upon if they are needed by the boss for something. But don´t think for a second that a member in his prime, can say bye bye to the boss "nice to have met you, I´m out", walk away and move to sunny Florida just like that.

I think that both Vincent Ferrara and Luigi Manocchio have retired from the mob.

Maybe Manocchio being about ninety years old did not want the stress of being involved with the patriarca crime family at his age.

I found Naimo has a sentence of 19 years for drug trafficking and mafia association.

Also, there could be some problems for pizza connection guys - Vito Roberto Palazzolo has been speaking for a few weeks. He rejected to be a pentito - he's still pretending that he's a businessman who got mixed up with Cosa Nostra - so far but he's mentioned some things and some names, mostly they are dead or in jail forever. But there could be trouble ahead.

So far only old names, Riina, Nino Madonia, Nino Rotolo, Leonardo Greco(Bagheria), Rosario Naimo who was in charge of the relations between Sicily and US families and the one who was chosen to guaranteed the exile of Inzerillo's. Palazzolo said he contacted Naimo for sorting some minor problems with some operations.

He also mentioned Nania family are the international brains for the Vitales. Nania's are treasurers of Partinico family; Francesco Nania was hiding in Newark with his sister until he was deported a few years ago to serve 9 years in Italy. His uncle Filippo Nania was underboss of Nene Geraci who was one of the closest to Riina.

toto wrote:

bronx wrote:rosario will eat naimo if lived in sicily.. is naimo out of prison yet? he can crush the gambino bros.

I doubt he can do anything to Gambino brothers. Rosario was in jail from about 1982 and Giovanni has been in jail for murder and drug trafficking. Since that time Naimo has zero contact with them. He doesn't know anything else about them. All his information is about historical matters so far. All other information about how Inzerillo's were killed is already known from the bug planted in Nino Rotolo's office.

o.k.

Chris Christie wrote:3 years ago, almost to the day, my second cousin in Partinico's business was blown up because he wouldn't pay the extortion. He called the authorities and the men were arrested, one of whom was linked to the boss.

Who is the boss now in Partinico? Still somebody from the Geraci or Vitale groups?

bronx wrote:rosario will eat naimo if lived in sicily.. is naimo out of prison yet? he can crush the gambino bros.

I doubt he can do anything to Gambino brothers. Rosario was in jail from about 1982 and Giovanni has been in jail for murder and drug trafficking. Since that time Naimo has zero contact with them. He doesn't know anything else about them. All his information is about historical matters so far. All other information about how Inzerillo's were killed is already known from the bug planted in Nino Rotolo's office.

rosario will eat naimo if lived in sicily.. is naimo out of prison yet? he can crush the gambino bros.

Paying pizzo has some benefits like if you get robbed you will have a good chance of getting your goods back or the thieves will get a severe beating or get killed. Like when a market in San Lorenzo was damaged and the owners were paying pizzo and they complained to Lo Piccolo and his guys found the guys who did it and beat them to death with sledgehammers. On the other side no businessman wants to pay any money to a bunch of low life and especially now that nobody has an exception. Centro Impastato wrote in a report about a shopkeeper who never paid because his brothers were men of honor but recently he said the guys who collected in his area came around and they were so embarassed but they said the new rule is everybody pays and no exceptions. He said his brothers status means nothing for the bosses now. There is a mad rush to get as much money before they get arrested and jailed for mafia crimes.

Reggio is more hardcore because of less legal pressure. There is a lot of hatred in Palermo in some parts of the law enforcement after Riina's attack on the state. So there is definitely a hardcore which really hates Cosa Nostra. This is less in Calabria because the state was never attacked directly by 'Ndrangheta.

I don't believe Calabria would be a failed state if it was independent. 'Ndrangheta would own the politicians and they would start investing in the region themselves. They definitely wouldn't bother investing all the money in the north or hiding it in Switzerland because they'd cancel all the asset seizure and money laundering laws.

Baaria is on my list to watch for a couple of years.

3 years ago, almost to the day, my second cousin in Partinico's business was blown up because he wouldn't pay the extortion. He called the authorities and the men were arrested, one of whom was linked to the boss. Since then he reopened the place and no repercussions for 2 years now.

Go east to Messina, across to Reggio Calabria it's a whole other story. RC if it was an independent country would be deemed a failed state due to the mafia infiltration at all levels of society.

Toto, you ever seen the film Baaria? One of my other cousins was a producer on it.

Its getting more like the US because the people that get hurt by the testimony usually end up in jail and they are replaced by new guys who don't care about what happened and they just want to make as much money as possible in the short time before they get arrested. Palermo and Napoli and Reggio is probably not a good idea for a pentito to go back immediately but after some time they are yesterdays news. Since 2008 Cosa Nostra is becoming more like Camorra in each family concentrating on its territory with constant changing of boss sometimes from people going to jail and sometimes from fighting between themselves. Of course, the cases I mentioned of Brusca and Santino Di Matteo are exceptional and not normal mostly because the guys they hurt are in jail forever and also because of the ferocious reputation guys like Brusca had - strangling a child to death "because I wanted a long career in Cosa Nostra" is something beyond most human beings.

All the old values are now finished like no ordinary criminals were allowed to join in the past, no divorce was allowed so Buscetta was put on the shelf because of it or Natale Rimi lost his respect because of it, bastard children is normal nowadays and in the past they looked down on it or didn't speak about it. All the old pretence of being something about helping people is totally finished and there is no hiding they are complete criminals. In the US the pretending about honor and such ideas stopped a long time ago and they considered themselves as criminals completely. But the ideas of honor and helping people have only really been finished in the past few years since the head of Cosa Nostra was chopped off when they arrested everybody in 2008.

Rosario Naimo said drug trafficking ruined Cosa Nostra. He described the day he joined Cosa Nostra and he said for a celebration they bought a cow for the family of poor farmer who died. This would never happen now. Instead some guys were arrested last year planning the home invasion robbery of a businessman in Palermo.

Chris Christie wrote:

toto wrote:

bronx wrote:naimo..flipped years ago..not living in palermo..he could get dead in palermo.

What are talking about? I know he's a pentito. He was living in Palermo since 1993 until he flipped and had nothing to do with Cosa Nostra and he said this.

And he couldn't "get dead" with any guarantee. He could probably go back and carry on living there. Nobody is looking for him. Brusca lives in the open. Santino Di Matteo went back to his old house in Altofonte and lives there and nothing happened to him for years.

Interesting, so what's going on the US is going on in Sicily? They can't get retribution for pentiti?

For some, not all. I also know that Naimo would be perfectly safe in Palermo, like toto said. He would never even be put on the stand to testify.
But for someone like Antonio Iovine, I'm sure there will be repercussions.