THE BLACK HAND FORUM

• The relationship between Detroit and Joe Profaci came about when some Detroit members were visiting New York in 1931 and felt threatened, so Joe Zerilli and Profaci made contact and a relationship developed from there
• Tocco drove Jersery Sal Profaci to a few meetings with Joe Zerilli but didn’t really know him
• Profaci was Dominic Peter Corrado’s best man at his wedding
• Profaci went to Detroit in the 2000s and early 2010s to try and resolve issues between Jack W. Tocco and Anthony Zerilli

In the early 1970s, Tocco and Anthony D. Giacalone were having a lunch in Little Italy in Manhattan. Giacalone got into an argument with a waiter with Tocco eventually threatening the waiter. Gotti was there and came over, Tocco told him something in Sicilian (“we are children?”) and Gotti said to leave them alone

• Tocco thinks Thomas was Lebanese
• Tocco had heard about the murder from the street and was told it wasn’t an Italian murder
• Thomas was reputed to be very dangerous in both LCN and Chaldean circles
• Tocco had known Thomas from the late 1960s and his involvement in underground abortions
• “Shrieky” in some sort of middle-eastern language variation means “Give me-Give me” and was given to Thomas because of his extortion rackets in the Chaldean community
• The street rumour is that Chaldean gangster Norman “Hulk” Dabish murdered Thomas as a result of drug issues and stealing from the Dabish brothers
• Thomas’ drug problems (heroin) would have prevented the Detroit family from representing Thomas in any of his Chaldean issues
• His advanced age also meant “either kill him or ignore him”

• Tocco says he never heard about the term “Zips” until reading books about the Pizza connection and says he would have been slapped if he ever used the term at home
• Antonio Ciraulo was around the Billy Giacalone crew
• Tocco knew Ciraulo to be a Detroit associate involved with drugs but didn’t know him to any real extent outside of him having a temper due to his addiction
• Scott says Ciraulo continues to deal drugs in state prison
• Ciraulo has claimed that Dennis Graziani and Thomas Gambini had a contract on him and he just acted first
• Tocco specifically tried to avoid letting guys like Ciraulo into his gambling locations because of issues like this
• Tocco would often run into Billy and Jack V. Giacalone at the Stage Deli
• Ceasar Badalamenti had a bad stutter and when he began cursing, Tocco found it extremely funny which would anger Badalamenti even more

• Tocco did know Girolamo “Mimmo” and Giuseppe “Joe” D’Anna
• Scott identifies Detroit member Anthony D’Anna as the “great-uncle” of the brothers
• Their first Tiramisu restaurant was visited by Nove Tocco, Paul Joseph Tocco, Anthony Tocco, Jack W. Tocco, Anthony Palazzolo and Anthony Zerilli
• Tocco believes their father was the boss of Terrasini at some point
• Scott says the brothers visit someone in Terrasini, who he says is now the boss of the family there
• “The old-timer” (possibly the D’Anna’s father or uncle) came to Detroit once in or around the mid-1980s and met with Jack W. Tocco, who then complained about various older Detroit members
• The old-timer lectured Tocco and said that he didn’t want to hear any disrespect as the Detroit members had greatly assisted the Terrasini guys after WW2 (Pietro Corrado, Joe Zerilli)
• Tocco says the Terrasini family didn’t want to deal drugs in the 1950s and struggled financially because of this
• Scott says Joe D’Anna first visited Detroit in the summer months before moving to the US with his brother Mimmo in 1991
• Joe D’Anna was an “errand boy” for Anthony Zerilli and others (Tocco confirms this)
• They opened a restaurant and a car wash during this time
• Scott says Joe D’Anna could balance activity between Tony Zerilli and Jack W. Tocco, Nove can’t comment
• Zerilli spoke highly of D’Anna to Scott and Nove says both brothers were respected from what he knew
• Some of Tocco’s Zerilli relatives may have worked at restaurants owned by the D’Annas
• Regarding the Ventimiglia beating, Nove has nothing to comment
• Scott repeats previous reporting that the D’Annas are the Detroit family’s “future”

• Joe Zerilli would facilitate sitdowns on Sundays at his home where both members and associates would attend
• Joe and Anthony Zerilli once represented Nove during a dispute with two of his cousins (not identified) who were “part of the organisation.” They had made threats towards a member of Nove’s family and during the meeting, he lost his temper, threatened them and stormed out. Joe Zerilli never spoke about the incident but Anthony later told him that he was in the right
• Sitdowns with “men from out of town” were often held late at night with both Joe Zerilli and Jack W. Tocco
• Joe Zerilli would often consult with John Priziola
• Nove Tocco felt that Jack W. Tocco would “script” sitdowns and instruct certain attendees on what to say
• At a sitdown with Jack and Tawn Tocco, Tawn insulted Joseph N. and Paul Joseph Tocco and almost caused a physical incident before Jack W. managed to calm everyone down
• Both Nove and Tawn had reputations around their poor temper
• Tocco acknowledges that Jack W. faced a lot more pressure from law enforcement than Joe Zerilli
• Jimmy Quasarano was difficult to read and often attend sitdowns with Peter Vitale
• Nove’s meetings with Jack W. were generally held at show-houses and only ever once or twice at Jack’s own home
• Nove Tocco feels that the whole Zito family were suspect and Anthony Zito (Detroit associate and CI) in particular was no good
• Tocco seems to confirm that both Domenic Bommarito and Joseph Mirabile were made members – “advisory positions”

• Met him later in life, would keep strange hours
• Lived in downtown Miami and Tocco would visit him with other old timers
• Not sure about his lineage, Tocco was told he was both half-Irish and half-Jewish at times
• Close with Pietro Corrado

• Sam was a “nice guy”
• Jack Anthony (Fat Fackie) was a bookmaker and the owner of the Wolverine Golf Club
• They were nephews of Detroit member Salvatore Lucido
• One of Jack’s stepsons produced the OG podcast for a while

• Tocco did not know him
(He was a Detroit member)

• Tocco did not know him
• Might’ve been a relative of Mike Rubino

• Met him but did not really know him
• Possibly another Rubino relative

• Did not know them

• Heard the name
• Member of the AID club (American Italian Delegates)

• Knew him to be a bookmaker
• Does not mention he was a Detroit member

• Knew him very well
• LCN associate
• Partners with Paul Joseph Tocco in a restaurant in 1961, called the Copper Kettle
• He was a landlord for the first business that Nove and Joseph N. Tocco owned

• Scarface Joe: Nove met him a few times when he was very young
• Long Joe: Detroit member and married to a sister of Peter Licavoli, worked at Nevada casinos via the family and died in 1987 in Las Vegas
• Tocco met him in the area a few times

• Angelo: Met him a few times and would drive Joe Zerilli to Meli’s farm for meetings
• Francesco: Knew him, more extroverted than his brother and inherited standing on the street from his brother

• Brother of Calogero
• Does not really recall meeting him

• Knew him and sons Daniel and Nick very well
• Joseph was a large person but very agile – “Whip” nickname
• No membership status identified

• Did not know him

• Did not know him

• Scott incorrectly calls him Los Angeles member Dominic’s brother, he was a cousin
• Tocco met him in Las Vegas at one point but did not know him too well
• Scott says the Licata-Tocco wedding was to “make nice” for Nicolo as he was the incoming boss, which does not add up given that DeSimone takes over for 12 years after Dragna
• Tocco did hear about Tony/Pete/Carmen Milano but never met them

• Did not know him very well but was a respected “made guy from the 1940s”
• Unsure if he related to Nove’s grandmother but definitely not Joe Zerilli’s brother-in-law

• “Wasn’t all there”
• (son of Salvatore)

• Could be a reference to either Joe Zerilli’s brother-in-law or nephew of the same name

• Remembers Dominic (father of Peter, k. 1985), did not meet Julian
• Nove heard a story that their father was killed in Sicily as a result of domestic issues but is not sure if it was really true

• Father of apparent Detroit member Domenic (d. 2017)
• Tocco met him but doesn’t remember him well and didn’t really interact with him

• “Very serious” reputation as a tough guy
• Met him once, possibly with Paul Joseph Tocco

• Associate of Vincent Meli, did not know him

• Knew him as a “street tough guy”
(Not sure on how to spell his name)

• Knew him to be close with Vito Giacalone

• Not an LCN guy, friends with Jack W. Tocco via the Italians Delegates Club
• Lived across the street from Nove’s brother-in-law

• Owned an auto-parts store
• Collected money for Vito Giacalone and was in his crew

• Syrian numbers guy who was around the Giacalone brothers
(Not sure on how to spell his name)

• Met him a few times in Las Vegas
• Jack W. Tocco at one point protected Tamer during a dispute with other high-ranking Detroit members in relation to the Aladdin

• Confirms him as a Detroit member
• Close with both Nove and Joseph N. Tocco
• Not sure if related to the St. Louis Giordanos but thinks it was possible
• August Giordano was his brother, not his son and was not a street guy
• The owner of the Bachelors Quarters was also named August Giordano but was not the same individual as Samuel’s brother

• Did not know either of them but remembers Frank as an “little old man” who was looked down on as a pimp
• Scott calls them both LCN members but Tocco does not comment

• No real comments outside of established info

• Did not know him

• Knew the name, did not know him
• Believes the family to be from Terrasini

(Mike is used in reference to Matthew Michael Trupiano, the St. Louis member)
• Tocco met Mike once in St. Louis after he was “kicked out of Detroit” as a result of an affair with the wife of an unidentified Detroit member
• Anthony Giordano was contacted over the issue and agreed that Trupiano should be killed but only if the woman was as well
• The made member did not want his children without a mother and Trupiano was instead chased
• The story was told as an example of what not to do on the streets, according to Nove
• Jack W. Tocco liked Trupiano and probably helped him get his position in St. Louis (not exactly a huge task in a small family of elderly guys?)
• Did not know Peter Trupiano (of no relation to Mike and the Giordanos I think he was Calabrian)

• Never heard of them

• Heard the names, thought them to be with Ed Windgate

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 19, 2025 11:02 am

JoePuzzles234 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:06 am

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:43 pm I subscribed a few wks ago. First time I listened to it. It's 5 bucks a month, it's cheap. I am not going to complain about that. But what I do see is this.. title of episode: Nove answered your questions:

SB: Nove, what was the Detroit mob like growing up...
Nove: Well...
SB: Yeah, if I can just color it up a little, growing up in the mob was like [insert i read court documents here]..
Nove: not really because...
SB: according to court filings I read.... 5 more minutesm.
SB: Next question is did you know chef boyardee and his strip club hang out?
Nove: Who, we never
SB: I'm just going to add some context to your point... then goes into another part of the Detroit mob that is irrelevant to the question
Nove: no business was ever done in that...
SB: according to a slew of court documents i got...

And on and on

I'm glad you can parse through the relevant data. Because idk what's important and what isn't.

Yeah, Scott takes over the conversation far too often in my opinion as well. I can understand why there are issues with video/audio quality but it's also kinda disappointing when it's a paid platform. Tocco's insights do help balance it all out in the end at least.

Tonyd621 wrote: I feel like all questions that is asked for Nove are softballs.
Can we ask this guy some pressing questions. Like idk why did you rat? What led you to do that? Is your nickname Nove Judas Tocco now? Why did you come back to Detroit? And why did you think it was safe now?
Scott is just jerking him off the whole time. Idk, maybe I'm missing the good content. I only watched two. What are your favorites that you watched?

They have partially covered Tocco's reasons for cooperating but I don't think they will really discuss much of his life nowadays, especially not like where his brother is at and other the allegations you can see on the forum. I think out of all of the episodes so far, I liked the one covering Gametax the most - even though some stuff is left vague, like whether or not Paul Joseph Tocco is a made guy etc.

I am personally hoping that they organise a private YouTube livestream for those who are paying so that more specific questions can be addressed, instead of the broader ones that general/casual viewers ask on public streams.

Allegations about his brother? No, I have not read that. I actually do not read the comments. I feel like if I'm paying 5 bucks a month I'm going to comments worth about that much. I wanted something interesting to listen to. What are you top 3 or some of your favs you would recommend?

JoePuzzles234 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:06 am

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:43 pm I subscribed a few wks ago. First time I listened to it. It's 5 bucks a month, it's cheap. I am not going to complain about that. But what I do see is this.. title of episode: Nove answered your questions:

SB: Nove, what was the Detroit mob like growing up...
Nove: Well...
SB: Yeah, if I can just color it up a little, growing up in the mob was like [insert i read court documents here]..
Nove: not really because...
SB: according to court filings I read.... 5 more minutesm.
SB: Next question is did you know chef boyardee and his strip club hang out?
Nove: Who, we never
SB: I'm just going to add some context to your point... then goes into another part of the Detroit mob that is irrelevant to the question
Nove: no business was ever done in that...
SB: according to a slew of court documents i got...

And on and on

I'm glad you can parse through the relevant data. Because idk what's important and what isn't.

Yeah, Scott takes over the conversation far too often in my opinion as well. I can understand why there are issues with video/audio quality but it's also kinda disappointing when it's a paid platform. Tocco's insights do help balance it all out in the end at least.

Tonyd621 wrote: I feel like all questions that is asked for Nove are softballs.
Can we ask this guy some pressing questions. Like idk why did you rat? What led you to do that? Is your nickname Nove Judas Tocco now? Why did you come back to Detroit? And why did you think it was safe now?
Scott is just jerking him off the whole time. Idk, maybe I'm missing the good content. I only watched two. What are your favorites that you watched?

They have partially covered Tocco's reasons for cooperating but I don't think they will really discuss much of his life nowadays, especially not like where his brother is at and other the allegations you can see on the forum. I think out of all of the episodes so far, I liked the one covering Gametax the most - even though some stuff is left vague, like whether or not Paul Joseph Tocco is a made guy etc.

I am personally hoping that they organise a private YouTube livestream for those who are paying so that more specific questions can be addressed, instead of the broader ones that general/casual viewers ask on public streams.

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:43 pm I subscribed a few wks ago. First time I listened to it. It's 5 bucks a month, it's cheap. I am not going to complain about that. But what I do see is this.. title of episode: Nove answered your questions:

SB: Nove, what was the Detroit mob like growing up...
Nove: Well...
SB: Yeah, if I can just color it up a little, growing up in the mob was like [insert i read court documents here]..
Nove: not really because...
SB: according to court filings I read.... 5 more minutesm.
SB: Next question is did you know chef boyardee and his strip club hang out?
Nove: Who, we never
SB: I'm just going to add some context to your point... then goes into another part of the Detroit mob that is irrelevant to the question
Nove: no business was ever done in that...
SB: according to a slew of court documents i got...

And on and on

I'm glad you can parse through the relevant data. Because idk what's important and what isn't.

Tonyd621 wrote: I feel like all questions that is asked for Nove are softballs.
Can we ask this guy some pressing questions. Like idk why did you rat? What led you to do that? Is your nickname Nove Judas Tocco now? Why did you come back to Detroit? And why did you think it was safe now?
Scott is just jerking him off the whole time. Idk, maybe I'm missing the good content. I only watched two. What are your favorites that you watched?

JoePuzzles234 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 2:14 am Figured it was probably a good idea to have a general thread for info from Nove Tocco. As a start, these are some random notes I’ve saved from various Patreon videos.

Previous threads:
Nove Tocco livestream notes (28 Feb)
Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)
Nove Tocco now on YouTube/Patreon with Scott B

Bernard Marchesani:
• Scott B calls him a made member and Tocco does not push back on it (did not know him either way)

On Ceasar Badalamenti (1925-1998):

A builder, originally a carpenter and to my knowledge, he was a made guy in Detroit

John Sciarrotta:
• Called both Johnny Bananas (antics) and Johnny Pyjamas because when Tocco and Big Paulie Corrado would show up to his house, often he’d be half-awake in his sleeping clothes
• His father Anthony was a bookmaker around the family, not a made guy as some have claimed
• Tocco and others were upset about his latest drug conviction

Footage of Joe Zerilli funeral, with some attendees as identified by Nove and Scott:

Joe Zerilli’s nephew Sam Serra (son of Salvatore J.?)
Domenic Bommarito (d. 2017)
Pasquale Carlini aka Patty Cars
Jack Vito Giacalone
Anthony Joseph Corrado
Anthony Joseph Zerilli (Joe’s son)
Paul Anthony Corrado (Big Paulie)
Peter Dominic Tocco (d. 2024)
Samuel William Bagnasco

Additional Zerilli funeral attendees included “people” from Chicago, New York (Profaci relatives) and possibly St. Louis


Identified Pallbearers:

Nove Tocco
Joseph N. Tocco (Nove’s brother)
Mike Licavoli (cousin of Nove and Joseph, son of Dominic Joseph?)
Danny Rubino (Joe Zerilli’s grandson-in-law, son of Matthew?)
Anthony Zerilli (Tony Z’s son)
Eugene Baratta (Tony Z’s son-in-law)
Joe Zerilli (relation not identified)
Marino Cusenza [ph.] (Joe Zerilli’s grandson-in-law)

Joseph? v. Tawn Tocco:
Nove does not say it was his brother but “someone” was slapped by Anthony J. Tocco, then assaulted him and around 2 years later there was retaliation where this person was beaten

Joe Zerilli near death:
• Tocco visited Joe Zerilli in the hospital with his sister in the days prior to his death
• As Zerilli’s health began to fail, he would speak mostly Sicilian
• Anthony Zerilli warned his sons, Nove and others that they should closely watch Joe Zerilli because he suspected someone would try build their reputation by harming him in his old age
• The FBI had stopped surveilling him by this point

Misc:
• Paul (Big Paulie) and brother Peter Jack Corrado went to the same high school as Madonna and were apparently friends with her because she had been a cheerleader and they both played football
• Anthony J. Tocco apparently had an altercation with the FBI at his father’s funeral

• Anthony Zerilli was Nove’s godfather because he had been Paul Joseph Tocco’s best man
• When Nove was born, he with his parents in his grandfather’s home and Zerilli as also lived there for a few years prior to getting married
• Zerilli met Rosalie Profaci in at 1935 at the World’s Fair and were pen pals for some years before reconnecting in 1940s and getting married in 1949
• Tocco and Scott B dispel the whole “arranged marriage” narrative and state that both Joe Zerilli and Joe Profaci made it clear that their daughters would ultimately decide on their relationships

• Does not explicitly identify Joseph Ernest Matranga (Joe Rocco) as a Detroit member/captain but ran into him once at FCI La Tuna
• Scott B calls Joe’s brother Frank a Los Angeles member, which I don’t think is correct
• Paul Joseph Tocco was the best man at one of the brother’s weddings, Nove can’t recall which
• Scott reduces Los Angeles captain Tony Mirabile into “someone working for Detroit” and says the Matranga brothers took over his operations

• The Detroit member Ceasar Badalamenti was not involved in the drug busts and was from Terrasini according to Nove
• Most of the other Badalamenti drug crew were from Cinisi
• They were not really with the Detroit family but may have given them money to avoid any interference

• Scott says for a bit that the overall family structure was looser but Nove clarifies that stricter membership meant that there were just more associates than made guys
• The street boss “was over” the captains in the family
• Some more prominent associates like Henry Allen Hilf and Fred Salem had more autonomy at times

• Tocco did some business in the area with independent operators as well as Cleveland and Youngstown
• An old-timer in Cleveland was James Amato, who Tocco dealt with and might’ve been related to James Licavoli

• Nove only went to Canada socially and had no business dealings there
• Mentions Onofrio Minaudo being deported
• Tocco was the best man at Anthony Palazzolo’s wedding

• Antonino Zerilli was brought over by his son Giuseppe (Joe, the Detroit member)
• Nove Tocco knew Joseph Mirabile and his brother Peter, stating that Joseph was a close friend of Jack W. Tocco. He was a brother in-law of Domenic Bommarito (ostensibly a Detroit member?)
• No comment is made around Joseph Mirabile’s apparent membership, Scott B was calling him the underboss from 2010-2014 in the past
• San Diego-area Los Angeles associate Paolo Mirabile (brother of Tony, murdered captain) is incorrectly called a member. The family of Joseph Mirabile believes they were probably relatives of Paolo, Tony and Pietro but not very closely related
• Joe Zerilli and Bill Tocco thought Chester LaMare to be dishonest and were upset at the murder of Gaspar Milazzo
• Samuel Giordano is described as “a member” by Tocco and would often hunt with Joe Zerilli and Paul Vitale
• Seems like Tocco and Big Paulie Corrado are still in contact
• Anthony D’Anna, after being grilled at the Kefauver hearings, was terrified and when going to a meeting with Joe Zerilli, took all his money and jewellery and gave it to his wife. He “cried like a baby” at Zerilli’s funeral in 1977
• Nove does not know of any relation between Bill and Joseph Tocco (the murdered bootlegger)
• Jack W. Tocco and Jimmy Quasarano did business with both Joseph E. and Joseph A. Todaro. Tocco would refer to Joseph as Zu Peppino

• Fred Sanderson and Gene Mancen were with Allen Hilf
• Mancen complained to Hilf about being ripped off at a Giacalone “casino night”
• Tocco notes that Hilf would not have been able to do anything about this but Jack V. Giacalone could have involved himself
• Paul Leggio was close with Billy Giacalone and had a “loose leash” which allowed him to deal drugs for a time
• Mr. Paul’s Chop House was a popular hangout for the Detroit family
• Anthony Teramine was a well-respected member and close with Matthew Rubino
• Tocco thinks it was probably Leggio who ordered the murders on his own without any official sanction
• Billy Giacalone made this an issue with Leggio because of Teramine and tribute problems over drug dealing in Florida
• Tocco himself was asked by Teramine to look into the issue and did briefly investigate before telling Black Tony to take it up himself because his formal status would get him further

He had been in Nove’s bugged car during a car ride during a collection, Tocco told him to sit in the driver’s seat and then leave immediately when he came back

B. wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 12:13 pm Thanks for staying up on this and sharing the info, Joe.

A builder, originally a carpenter and to my knowledge, he was a made guy in Detroit

Joe Zerilli’s nephew Sam Serra (son of Salvatore J.?)
Domenic Bommarito (d. 2017)
Pasquale Carlini aka Patty Cars
Jack Vito Giacalone
Anthony Joseph Corrado
Anthony Joseph Zerilli (Joe’s son)
Paul Anthony Corrado (Big Paulie)
Peter Dominic Tocco (d. 2024)
Samuel William Bagnasco

Nove Tocco
Joseph N. Tocco (Nove’s brother)
Mike Licavoli (cousin of Nove and Joseph, son of Dominic Joseph?)
Danny Rubino (Joe Zerilli’s grandson-in-law, son of Matthew?)
Anthony Zerilli (Tony Z’s son)
Eugene Baratta (Tony Z’s son-in-law)
Joe Zerilli (relation not identified)
Marino Cusenza [ph.] (Joe Zerilli’s grandson-in-law)