THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Currently watching SEND NO FLOWERS on Tubi and it's American version of female boss daughter taking over

Pretty good considering

[quote=Proletarian187 post_id=291747 time=1744028864 user_id=8432]
it might be the closest thing to a donna d'onore we've seen in Sicily.
[/quote]

I believe this honor goes to a person I mentioned earlier in the thread Rosalia Messina Denaro who’s brother was the highest ranking boss in Sicily so while not an initiated member of Cosa Nostra she was treated as such by the members of the Castelvetrano family because she was acting on behalf of him.

[i]Rosalia Messina Denaro, 67, also known as Rosetta, was herself detained in Sicily on mafia membership charges on Friday, with the Carabinieri - Italian police - releasing a 57-page arrest warrant detailing some of the circumstances which led to her brother's earlier arrest.

The warrant reveals that police found a note inside the leg of an aluminium chair in Rosalia's home in the town of Castelvetrano, in the west of the island, while trying to plant a listening device inside during an operation in December.

She is alleged to have played a major role in her mafia family, acting as treasurer, with police saying she communicated with her brother using the code name "Fragolone", or "big strawberry".
The warrant described Rosalia as a woman with "origins and traditions all inspired by an orthodox and rock-hard mafia culture".

The warrant says she is under investigation for being part of the mafia organisation and committing crimes through her membership, helping her brother escape numerous jail sentences, helping him continue in his role as boss of the organisation, and making sure other members of the organisation could communicate with him while he was hiding from the authorities.[/i]

One interesting case from Sicily is that of Giusy Vitale. She was alleged to be the de facto boss of Partinico in 1998. With three brothers in jail or on the run she was utilized both as an acting Boss and a messenger. She was 27 yrs old at the time.

It seems she was accepted both in and out of Partinico, as she personally met with both LeoLuca Bagarella and Giovanni Brusca.

It wasn’t "official", she wasn’t a member and she was arrested two months later and flipped. But still, it might be the closest thing to a donna d'onore we've seen in Sicily.

Makes me think of the movie THE KITCHEN

Pretty decent

Been lotta Tubi gangster movies coming out lately
Interesting a few on mafia women

Its been a very long time since reading the book Gomorrah but when I read it it had I wanna say 3 separate stories on female bosses

Licarddi
Scissor group of the secogidgloano clan
And Il pupparo

And I remember reading about a few others as well.

In all 3 case the women started there reigns bc there husbands were imprisoned bosses - but it seemed all 3 got power hungry and took over after awhile

Similar to how they did it in the TV show

[quote=sdeitche post_id=291677 time=1743864447 user_id=5233]
Curious how many instances of women working with their male Mafia counterparts (e.g. husbands, brothers, etc) there are?

In Tampa there are several examples of women being involved in bolita operations. Frank Diecidue and his wife Rose comes to mind. She was arrested with him.
In the 70s the California Rivero bolita syndicate (tied to the Trafficantes) employed women as sellers.
[/quote]

It wasn't too rare for wives, sisters, mothers, and female relatives to help with gambling operations, bootlegging, and those kinds of operations even among the Sicilians. Nothing remotely organizational but low-level operational assistance wasn't uncommon.

Really good Info gents. Great contributions all

[quote=sdeitche post_id=291677 time=1743864447 user_id=5233]
Curious how many instances of women working with their male Mafia counterparts (e.g. husbands, brothers, etc) there are?

In Tampa there are several examples of women being involved in bolita operations. Frank Diecidue and his wife Rose comes to mind. She was arrested with him.
In the 70s the California Rivero bolita syndicate (tied to the Trafficantes) employed women as sellers.
[/quote]

If I recall correctly, Chauncey Smaldones wife was involved in the Denver mobs gambling activities and was even the victim of an attempted shooting.

Curious how many instances of women working with their male Mafia counterparts (e.g. husbands, brothers, etc) there are?

In Tampa there are several examples of women being involved in bolita operations. Frank Diecidue and his wife Rose comes to mind. She was arrested with him.
In the 70s the California Rivero bolita syndicate (tied to the Trafficantes) employed women as sellers.

In Italy in the oc crime groups the women have power only if are wife or parents of bosses or powerful members.

The Mexicans are using women as sicarios.

Doubt that in the United States the women would accept to be made in the mob.

[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=291640 time=1743796665 user_id=171]
Referring specifically to LCN groups in Italy. Be interested if anyone knows if they're actually made into the family. And if this is commonly done, a sort of equal opportunity, or if its only in circumstances where they're acting on behalf of a powerful made guy.
[/quote]


I've though a lot about Naples.......



In Naples, I think they do marriages. I honestly don't think they "make" people. But im open to being wrong. In their territories, its not that they DONT do extortion, but they seem operate more like powerful family owned corporations or Cartels? The 3 Aieta sisters, married to I think Contini, Mallardo and Bosti family bosses weilded a lot of influence too.

As far as them being a watered down "Honored Society", I think with them, its much less about the formality of structure, and more about the everpresent reality that the inhabitants have been conditioned to accept their authority. Its a raw form of fuedalism still.

See, this is the reason clans like the Casamonicas can meet the definition of a "Mafia" according to Italian law. This is why the Secondigliano Alliance or Casalesi, or even the more local clans continue to hold power. How do Nigerian cults/gangs meet a definition of Mafia association, in absence of a relationship with political figures? The LOCALS, the Italians, look to the local Nigerian gang leader as a "Man of Honor"? Of course not. But the local Nigerian population did, and that's enough to "Qualify" as a "MAFIA" in a given territory. Members that respond to an internal code, inhabitants of a given territory that respond to this authority in opposition of the official authority. Anyone feel free to give a clarification if this is off......

I've seen Grattieri marvel at the Naples guys facility with the Dark Web. And that Martiradonna clan from Apulia....... I think set up the technical infrastructure for a lot of the online betting for both Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta.

I don't immediately buy into the idea that they are inferior organization because they don't appoint a formal hierarchy. To me, they INFORMALLY adhere to that structure Angelo researched about the early Cammora. The Major and Minor societies. To me, the Major Societies are ALWAYS led by a powerful clan, or an alliance or coalition of FAMILY clans. The bastardized fuedalism. The Minor societies are basically the equivalent of employees, contracted muscle, mobilized unskilled labor, all organized into business structures. I guess it's more......Cartelish?

I believe a lot of the hype around "godmothers" in Italy is also downstream of the Sopranos who to be fair were interpreting a real Camorra phenomenon but exaggerated it for storyline purposes (Tony has to have someone to bang in Italy and what better sexual tension than making the acting Camorra leader a woman).

[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=291638 time=1743796162 user_id=171]
Interesting point. Are women in Italian families actually MADE. I just assumed they acted as proxies for imprisoned husbands/fathers etc. I didn't think they were formally straightened out.
[/quote]

That's exactly what it is. And even then they are very much the exception to the rule.

The simple answer is that the mafia is a fundamentally conservative, patriarchal, and fraternal organization based around interpretations of manhood derived from a highly traditional honor culture. Manhood is a core part of a mafioso's identity and central to the philosophy of omerta.

The Sicilian mafia (and American mafia from which it's derived) has a somewhat different relationship to women than the Camorra for example, like Tony said above, with the capital "M" Mafia being more conservative in nature than the more liberal Camorra (which is not only more permissive toward women but also its male recruits). They are ultimately more similar than they are different with regard to women when it comes to the core organization, though. The 'ndrangheta is interesting in that it appears to have become more conservative over time whereas even the Sicilian/American mafia has become more liberal in certain ways without changing its basic foundation.

Publicized stories of "godmothers" or women playing a role in mafia affairs are often more exaggerated media hype than anything, especially with the Sicilians, as the idea of mafia groups adapting to include female mafiosi is an obvious attention grabber.

[quote=johnny_scootch post_id=291647 time=1743805535 user_id=105]
[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=291640 time=1743796665 user_id=171]
Referring specifically to LCN groups in Italy. Be interested if anyone knows if they're actually made into the family.
[/quote]

They’re not but they could still be influential when acting as a proxy for a relative, Rosalia Matteo Denaro for example.

I know less about the Ndrangheta but I don’t think they actually initiate women either but they still wield influence in certain circumstances like Cosa Nostra but because of the Ndrangheta blood family based nature it happens far more often then it does with Cosa Nostra.
[/quote]
Correct on both counts. So far as I am aware, while some female relatives of 'ndranghetisti are accorded a sort of honorary status as such -- and can indeed wield influence via their husbands and male relatives -- they are not formally initiated into the "Honored Society". The only examples of this that come to mind are accounts of the old Camorra Societies (of which the 'ndrangheta of course evolved from), which did have female cohorts which in some cases were organized into a women's division. This makes sense, given that prostitution was a central racket for the old Camorra (and thus, female affiliates played important roles in that area as madams and enforcers). This was even carried over into the US, as we know that there was a women's division in the Calabrian Societa di Camorra di Lucre in White Plains, as one example. One should not read this as indicating that female affiliates enjoyed anything like a coequal status vis-a-vis the male members of the Society, however.

There have been several prominent women in the melodrama of the modern Neapolitan Camorra, such as the famous Assunta "'a Pupetta" Maresca (widow of the notorious Palma Campania/Nola Camorrista Pasquale Simonetti, who later remarried Nuova Fratellanza narcotics bigshot-turned-pentito Umberto Ammaturo) and Rosetta Cutolo of Ottaviano, sister of NCO chief Raffaele Cutolo. These women mostly acted as proxies (though 'a Pupetta famously lit up one of her slain husband's killers in broad daylight), etc., for male Camorristi, of course. The only exception to this that I'm aware of having been Maria Licciardi, who acted as leader of the Clan Licciardi and L'Alleanza di Secondigliano along with her brother Vincenzo, following the slayings and incarceration of prior leaders of this group (the character "Scianel" from the series Gomorrah was partly modelled on her). The contemporary Neapolitan Camorra is, however, what I call a "degenerated mafia", where it has retained aspects of mafia culture and practice, while having lost the formalized structural organization of an "Honored Society". It is thus not an apples-to-apples comparative case with respect to cosa nostra, 'ndrangheta, SCU.