THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by Ed » Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:15 pm

sdeitche wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:06 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:01 pm Any 'powa' there is, is in Canada.
St Catherines?
Im one of 3 people on this board whove even heard of this place let alone been there.
It's the hometown of the greatest drummer of all time, Neil Peart.

Geddy Lee lived just around the block from me when I was a kid, and my grade school faced his street. My buddies and I often saw him out cutting his front lawn. In music class, we’d crank up “Tom Sawyer” every chance we got. Good times.

by **sdeitche** » Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:06 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:01 pm Any 'powa' there is, is in Canada.
St Catherines?
Im one of 3 people on this board whove even heard of this place let alone been there.

It's the hometown of the greatest drummer of all time, Neil Peart.

by **Wiseguy** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:33 pm

NickleCity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:07 pmAccording to Bebe at the Buffalo News authorities estimated the number of members at 100 in 1985 and 80 when his article was written in Nov of 1987.

80-100 in the 1980s? Not a chance.

by **Cheech** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:49 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:01 pm Any 'powa' there is, is in Canada.
St Catherines?
Im one of 3 people on this board whove even heard of this place let alone been there.

My man

by **NickleCity** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:07 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 11:08 am
Here's what I have...

1967 report: 73 listed members
1967 report: 68 listed members (48 confirmed, 20 suspected; included Rochester)
1985 FBI: 56 listed members
1989 FBI: 45 cited members
1993 FBI: 49 listed members
1997 Hamilton PD: 34 listed members (some missing)
2006 FBI: 23 listed members
2013 article: 20 estimated members

According to Bebe at the Buffalo News authorities estimated the number of members at 100 in 1985 and 80 when his article was written in Nov of 1987.

by **Newyorkempire** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 5:55 pm

Guy is really a loser. It's embarrassing

by **NickleCity** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 5:08 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:01 pm
We need to get you a hobby before this one trial is over.

LOL, but to get is back on topic, I believe Buffalo’s power diminished when 11 members were put in charge of their respective territories and people in them after Magaddino’s death. Despite having a few acting bosses some reports indicate there was no strong central authority until Todaro was put in place by the commission. Fino suggests this in his book as well.

Michael BeBe’s article “Crime Bosses Weild Shrinking Power as Prosecutors Exercise More of Theirs” in the Nov 9, 1987 edition of The Buffalo News

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:01 pm

NickleCity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:49 pm I get it… but I specifically foia requested 2006 to see what Hudson was talking about. I do have a request for all FBI Buffalo family charts from 1974 - present… been waiting a long time and still have a long wait in front of me for them.

My only point is take anything Parlato or Hudson write/wrote with a grain of salt. I quote them from time to time... but I definitely understand they have an agenda.

We need to get you a hobby before this one trial is over.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:01 pm

Any 'powa' there is, is in Canada.
St Catherines?
Im one of 3 people on this board whove even heard of this place let alone been there.

by **NickleCity** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:49 pm

I get it… but I specifically foia requested 2006 to see what Hudson was talking about. I do have a request for all FBI Buffalo family charts from 1974 - present… been waiting a long time and still have a long wait in front of me for them.

My only point is take anything Parlato or Hudson write/wrote with a grain of salt. I quote them from time to time... but I definitely understand they have an agenda.

by **Wiseguy** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:37 pm

NickleCity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:17 pm
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:12 pm Who's "everyone?" And what exactly is Hudson's "agenda?" Whatever you think of the paper, it's citing the FBI as a source. So it's really the FBI we're talking about.
See the 2006 chart that I've posted above. Would you rather believe what Hudson said the FBI did to the chart or the actual chart?

I can't say what chart Hudson was looking at or if it was the exactly same chart as posted above. In any event, to my point, if you look at the spacing within the redacted areas in the chart above, you're looking at about the same number of members. Incidentally, there was another chart the Hamilton PD put out in 1997 (it might still be on this forum somewhere) that showed 34 members (though admittedly some known ones were missing).

by **NickleCity** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:17 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:12 pm Who's "everyone?" And what exactly is Hudson's "agenda?" Whatever you think of the paper, it's citing the FBI as a source. So it's really the FBI we're talking about.

See the 2006 chart that I've posted above. Would you rather believe what Hudson said the FBI did to the chart or the actual chart?

by **Wiseguy** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:12 pm

Who's "everyone?" And what exactly is Hudson's "agenda?" Whatever you think of the paper, it's citing the FBI as a source. So it's really the FBI we're talking about.

by **NickleCity** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:08 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 11:08 am
Here's what I have...

1967 report: 73 listed members
1967 report: 68 listed members (48 confirmed, 20 suspected; included Rochester)
1985 FBI: 56 listed members
1989 FBI: 45 cited members
1993 FBI: 49 listed members
1997 Hamilton PD: 34 listed members (some missing)
2006 FBI: 23 listed members
2013 article: 20 estimated members

Hey Wiseguy ... I'd take the NF Reporter article with a grain of salt. Here is a screenshot:

Everyone from the area knows the Niagara Fall Reporter was and is a rag to promote Hudson's and others' agenda in NF. Also, from what I understand Mike Hudson was an associate of Todaro Sr. ...Additionally, from what I've heard Parlato Jr. who took it over after Hudson's death is or was an associate as well. I'm not going to get into how I know this now and you can certainly take my street knowledge with a grain of salt as well.

Hudson is the one that wrote about Falzone taking over for Todaro as acting boss saying the FBI had adjusted their charts in 2006 and that Nicoletti was the underboss. As we know from the 2006 chart that I posted, the FBI had Falzone listed as a soldier not boss or even acting boss. Additionally, it has Nicolitti as a soldier as well.

Here is the 2006 FBI chart:

by **Wiseguy** » Tue Nov 19, 2024 11:08 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:05 am They had 49 in 1993. 1985 had 72, but included Rochester, which the '93 had separate (31 members). The 1960s lists can have accuracy issues, but I don't have that number off the top of my head.

I also can't attest to the accuracy of Rochester members being recognized as Rochester members, Buffalo members, or (in some cases) not at all.

Here's what I have...

1967 report: 73 listed members
1967 report: 68 listed members (48 confirmed, 20 suspected; included Rochester)
1985 FBI: 56 listed members
1989 FBI: 45 cited members
1993 FBI: 49 listed members
1997 Hamilton PD: 34 listed members (some missing)
2006 FBI: 23 listed members
2013 article: 20 estimated members

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