by gohnjotti » Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:10 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:11 pm
gohnjotti wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:35 pm
Unless you can elaborate this further, you're saying that an "advantage" to being on-record with the Genovese family over the Colombo family is, in particular, the
respect, connections, rackets, manpower, presence that the larger family could ostensibly offer someone. I responded to each of those points explaining why that's not quite accurate.
Thats not accurate?
Well, did you read my response?
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:11 pm
So being a member of the Westside gives you a zero greater network than the Colombo's? Dude. Really? Once Again "respect, connections, rackets, manpower, presence" is greater in some Borghata's than others. 200 buttons = more than 70.
What does the number of buttons have to do with anything? A Genovese can't necessarily call on Genovese 'manpower' for help. They call on their underlings, their close associates, maybe their immediate superior. A Genovese doesn't interact with all the other Genoveses on a regular basis. They don't have a group chat, or a bi-annual convention where they swap ideas. To your credit SonnyB, the Bonannos have been holding Christmas parties among their captains - that's an example of a family facilitating greater connections within the family but, as a whole, a crime family is not a big fraternity where everyone knows each other. At least not in today's era. Ralph Scopo Jr. (a Colombo) was a regular attendee at Ciro Perrone's (a Genovese) social club during the 2000s. Jimmy Galione (a Lucchese) hung out with mostly Bonanno members/associates on Bath Ave. during the '90s. There are countless examples. Joey Merlino and the whole Philly-New York LCN connection involved members from Philadelphia and most of New York's Five Families. Nicky Rizzo (a Colombo) was arrested at a Bonanno family Christmas party in 2011. That's why "who you know" is more important than the family itself. When you're "sponsored" into a crime family, you're sponsored by a specific made member. Being "sponsored" by Carmine Russo or Elio Albanese of the Genovese family would not offer you as much connections as, for example, being sponsored by Ernie Aiello of the Bonannos or Teddy Persico of the Colombo family. You might call this a strawman argument because it's positing two extremes, but I think it illustrates the point.
(Carmine Russo and Elio Albanese were caught on FBI surveillance selling fireworks on street corners in Manhattan during the '90s, then both arrested in 2022 for selling oxycodone and other pills. Both members of the largest crime family, the Genoveses. Ernie Aiello of the Bonannos is, from what I understand, close to the ruling regime, while Teddy Persico of the Colombos is part of the Colombos' 'royal' family, and both would presumably have a greater access to their respective crime families' union interests and other rackets.).
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:11 pm
No ones saying when youre on record or made you get ACCESS to rackets. But in terms of connections (see, my quote).... Yeah, youre a made guy with the Westside, your connections are likely more in priority than a random button from another family.
I genuinely don't understand what you mean when you say one's "connections" are "more in priority" in one family compared to another.
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:11 pm
Your presence is more powerful.Your manpower is more powerful. Your rackets are more powerful.
How? Please explain how. Give me some sort of an example or scenario. And again, I'm referring to the modern era of LCN (1980s-today), because we're both discussing these scenarios in the present tense. When you say an individual's "rackets are more powerful" with the Genovese/Gambino over a smaller family, I don't understand how you quantify or measure the "power" of a racket - i.e., a Joker-Poker route, a loansharking book, a union scam - aside from the actual dollar amount that the 'racket' is generating. If a 'racket' defines anything illegitimate that generates income for a crime family, then surely the 'dollar amount' of said racket defines its power? I feel like it's a mind-numbingly minute exercise to argue over such abstract things as the "power" of a racket, or the "presence" and "manpower" of a family, but I genuinely would like to see your point. To your credit SonnyBlackstein, CabriniGreen offered the DeMeo example as evidence that certain associates consider the overall 'strength' of a family when deciding whom to side with.
[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=281755 time=1723608698 user_id=171]
[quote=gohnjotti post_id=281703 time=1723516514 user_id=5299]
Unless you can elaborate this further, you're saying that an "advantage" to being on-record with the Genovese family over the Colombo family is, in particular, the [u]respect, connections, rackets, manpower, presence[/u] that the larger family could ostensibly offer someone. I responded to each of those points explaining why that's not quite accurate.
[/quote]
Thats not accurate?
[/quote]
Well, did you read my response?
[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=281755 time=1723608698 user_id=171]
So being a member of the Westside gives you a zero greater network than the Colombo's? Dude. Really? Once Again "respect, connections, rackets, manpower, presence" is greater in some Borghata's than others. 200 buttons = more than 70.
[/quote]
What does the number of buttons have to do with anything? A Genovese can't necessarily call on Genovese 'manpower' for help. They call on their underlings, their close associates, maybe their immediate superior. A Genovese doesn't interact with all the other Genoveses on a regular basis. They don't have a group chat, or a bi-annual convention where they swap ideas. To your credit SonnyB, the Bonannos have been holding Christmas parties among their captains - that's an example of a family facilitating greater connections within the family but, as a whole, a crime family is not a big fraternity where everyone knows each other. At least not in today's era. Ralph Scopo Jr. (a Colombo) was a regular attendee at Ciro Perrone's (a Genovese) social club during the 2000s. Jimmy Galione (a Lucchese) hung out with mostly Bonanno members/associates on Bath Ave. during the '90s. There are countless examples. Joey Merlino and the whole Philly-New York LCN connection involved members from Philadelphia and most of New York's Five Families. Nicky Rizzo (a Colombo) was arrested at a Bonanno family Christmas party in 2011. That's why "who you know" is more important than the family itself. When you're "sponsored" into a crime family, you're sponsored by a specific made member. Being "sponsored" by Carmine Russo or Elio Albanese of the Genovese family would not offer you as much connections as, for example, being sponsored by Ernie Aiello of the Bonannos or Teddy Persico of the Colombo family. You might call this a strawman argument because it's positing two extremes, but I think it illustrates the point. [i](Carmine Russo and Elio Albanese were caught on FBI surveillance selling fireworks on street corners in Manhattan during the '90s, then both arrested in 2022 for selling oxycodone and other pills. Both members of the largest crime family, the Genoveses. Ernie Aiello of the Bonannos is, from what I understand, close to the ruling regime, while Teddy Persico of the Colombos is part of the Colombos' 'royal' family, and both would presumably have a greater access to their respective crime families' union interests and other rackets.)[/i].
[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=281755 time=1723608698 user_id=171]
No ones saying when youre on record or made you get ACCESS to rackets. But in terms of connections (see, my quote).... Yeah, youre a made guy with the Westside, your connections are likely more in priority than a random button from another family.
[/quote]
I genuinely don't understand what you mean when you say one's "connections" are "more in priority" in one family compared to another.
[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=281755 time=1723608698 user_id=171]
Your presence is more powerful.Your manpower is more powerful. Your rackets are more powerful.
[/quote]
How? Please explain how. Give me some sort of an example or scenario. And again, I'm referring to the modern era of LCN (1980s-today), because we're both discussing these scenarios in the present tense. When you say an individual's "rackets are more powerful" with the Genovese/Gambino over a smaller family, I don't understand how you quantify or measure the "power" of a racket - i.e., a Joker-Poker route, a loansharking book, a union scam - aside from the actual dollar amount that the 'racket' is generating. If a 'racket' defines anything illegitimate that generates income for a crime family, then surely the 'dollar amount' of said racket defines its power? I feel like it's a mind-numbingly minute exercise to argue over such abstract things as the "power" of a racket, or the "presence" and "manpower" of a family, but I genuinely would like to see your point. To your credit SonnyBlackstein, CabriniGreen offered the DeMeo example as evidence that certain associates consider the overall 'strength' of a family when deciding whom to side with.