who do you think

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Re: who do you think

by CornerBoy » Sun Jul 14, 2024 4:26 am

the fbi said an informant who went by "G" tipped them off

the fbi could just be lying though

Re: who do you think

by SonnyBlackstein » Sat Jul 13, 2024 3:18 pm

The source could've literally been anything.
A bug, a wire tap, someone could've said 'something bigs going down this weekend!', a conversation, a tail. Anything.
To assume it had to have been a rat is ignoring a multitude of other possibilities. It's plausible. But it's, a guess at best.


What if Frankie was bugged?

What if Frankie had a meet with a guy and said listen, I can't come, something important this weekend has come up. And that guy told a guy who told a guy who told a guy.

The math that the meeting was I'D by the feds = Frankie was a rat, is a long bow.

Re: who do you think

by davidf1989 » Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:04 pm

B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:36 pm The strongest candidate is Frank DeCicco. Very few people were in a position to know the exact time, date, location, and nature of the meeting and the informant knew all this well in advance and accurately communicated it to LE. The other attendees outside the Gambino admin and DeCicco likely didn't know the exact location as they were told to meet DeCicco at another location and he drove them there. It was DeCicco who set up the location, planned the logistics, and facilitated everyone else getting there.

Gus Sclafani also claimed to have paperwork proving DeCicco was an informant and we know he had a track record for getting valuable LE intel and court documents for close to ten years at that time through his mother-in-law. For a decade he had access to information that was not only legitimate but greatly assisted members of multiple Families. People like Gravano have dismissed Sclafani's claim but he did allegedly have paperwork (a requirement in the life if you accuse someone of informing) and up to that point the paperwork he got was legitimate.

The most likely explanation is it was either DeCicco or someone very close to him. Keep in mind this is a guy who broke the cardinal rule of killing his own boss (who was very good to him) a short time later and there were rumors he went after other members' wives. I wouldn't be surprised if he first tried to take Castellano off the streets through cooperation then settled on murder. Even though the narrative (largely because of Gravano) is that DeCicco was the ultimate man's man, he was as treacherous as they come and had no problem breaking the rules of the life -- that's a fact. I'm not saying it's a fact he cooperated and snitched out the Commission meeting, but it does all come back to him and the informant was a Gambino affiliate with access to the highest levels of the Family.

Even if DeCicco or someone from the admin told another Gambino affiliate about the meeting, what are the chances they would tell them the exact address, time, and date, and then that informant would accurately recall those details? Why would they even tell them those details to begin with for a highly-secretive "need to know" meeting between leaders of the NYC Families? Greg Scarpa didn't know these fucking details haha, he's just become a "catch all" source people can blame for anything.

Could the source have been Joe Watts? Due to this article https://www.newspapers.com/article/daily-news/73568814/

Re: who do you think

by Ivan » Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:36 pm

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:10 pm boss of bosses was one of the first mob books I read it was so good. then later on I found out the agent took liberal freedoms with the book it kind of ruined it for me.
From what I hear they changed the wiretap scene because they felt it was important to not reveal actual FBI methods, so they just made up some stuff to obfuscate what really happened. It's unclear to me why they did this though instead of just saying they couldn't reveal the details and avoid dramatizing the bugging. The rest of the book I have no idea; I hope it's not bullshit because like you said it's one hell of a read.

Re: who do you think

by SonnyBlackstein » Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:59 pm

Why does the time/location of the Commission meeting have to be a rat? Why couldn't it have been gleamed from a wire, bug or tap?

Why couldn't they have overheard the conversation giving Frank the time n place? Why is that impossible. It's plausible, and we're only assuming, to my knowledge, it had to have been a CI.

Re: who do you think

by Pmac2 » Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:10 pm

boss of bosses was one of the first mob books I read it was so good. then later on I found out the agent took liberal freedoms with the book it kind of ruined it for me. murder machine and blood and oath top tier. or whatever the nicky crow book was called

Re: who do you think

by Russell » Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:17 am

Carmine lambordozzi? Just a wild guess

Re: who do you think

by Ivan » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:47 pm

The Greek wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:34 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:54 pm
The Greek wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 3:24 pm this is old news and has been beaten to death on the mob message boards for 20 years. B laid it out perfectly
I've somehow never heard it before today and I've been a mushroom growing on the boards, active pretty much every day of my life, since 1999. :lol:

No idea how I missed this. So they clipped Sclafani over it, eh? Wild.

The FBI agent meeting with Gallo was Andris "Andy" Kurins, I believe. There's a ton of passages in the Boss of Bosses book where purported dialogue from meetups between him and Gallo are transcribed but since he and O'Brien completely fabricated the bugging scene I'm somewhat skeptical of them and many other things in the book (that thing where the author keeps going on about how "inbred" everyone is also got on my nerves after a while).
Didn't mean to come off in a bad way!
Oh no not at all haha, I jut thought it was funny that I'd never seen something this big but apparently you all have given that I basically live on the boards lol.

I believe there's a picture of the old lady in the Boss of Bosses book BTW.

Re: who do you think

by B. » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:37 pm

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:20 pm So.how did the old lady get busted?? I'm guessing Paul would have shown the paper work to his army of lawyers
Like I said, they had recordings from the Castellano bug of him discussing the arrangement, particularly as it related to the Persicos, and I believe they also set her up to catch her in the act, among other evidence.

There is no info suggesting the alleged DeCicco paperwork had anything to do with the actual case against Russo and Sclafani or that this specific paperwork ever surfaced beyond the story of Sclafani reporting it to the Family.

Re: who do you think

by NothingNew44 » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:36 pm

We’ve talked about this over the years. As B stated DeCicco seems like the informant. The more information has come out over the years it seems nearly every Family had guys talking that on the surface you’d never suspect.

Re: who do you think

by The Greek » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:34 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:54 pm
The Greek wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 3:24 pm this is old news and has been beaten to death on the mob message boards for 20 years. B laid it out perfectly
I've somehow never heard it before today and I've been a mushroom growing on the boards, active pretty much every day of my life, since 1999. :lol:

No idea how I missed this. So they clipped Sclafani over it, eh? Wild.

The FBI agent meeting with Gallo was Andris "Andy" Kurins, I believe. There's a ton of passages in the Boss of Bosses book where purported dialogue from meetups between him and Gallo are transcribed but since he and O'Brien completely fabricated the bugging scene I'm somewhat skeptical of them and many other things in the book (that thing where the author keeps going on about how "inbred" everyone is also got on my nerves after a while).
Didn't mean to come off in a bad way!

Re: who do you think

by NothingNew44 » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:32 pm

viewtopic.php?p=424&hilit=DeCicco+informant#p424

viewtopic.php?t=9162&hilit=DeCicco+informant

Re: who do you think

by Pmac2 » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:20 pm

So.how did the old lady get busted?? I'm guessing Paul would have shown the paper work to his army of lawyers

Re: who do you think

by B. » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:14 pm

I'd have to re-read what they said about it in the book but having seen the original FBI reports between the SA and Gallo, I was surprised how open Gallo was in the interviews and Gallo did share general gossip about the Gambino Family although it was nothing incriminating and he eventually clammed up. This went on for a little while though and it seems like Gallo naively thought they were just chatting as friends which is funny.

Re: who do you think

by Ivan » Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:54 pm

The Greek wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 3:24 pm this is old news and has been beaten to death on the mob message boards for 20 years. B laid it out perfectly
I've somehow never heard it before today and I've been a mushroom growing on the boards, active pretty much every day of my life, since 1999. :lol:

No idea how I missed this. So they clipped Sclafani over it, eh? Wild.

The FBI agent meeting with Gallo was Andris "Andy" Kurins, I believe. There's a ton of passages in the Boss of Bosses book where purported dialogue from meetups between him and Gallo are transcribed but since he and O'Brien completely fabricated the bugging scene I'm somewhat skeptical of them and many other things in the book (that thing where the author keeps going on about how "inbred" everyone is also got on my nerves after a while).

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