THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:54 am

JMAN723 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:40 pm I always felt the Lucchese’s or Agro did it. I never bought the whole “Gotti killed him” theory. I have heard that Souone was killed by the Bergin Crew but who knows

Yea I did hear that Joseph Spione was killed by the Bergin crew because he allegedly helped Thomas desimone kill Ronald jerothe and for refusing to help the gambinos by setting up desimone. Allegedly he was beaten by bats then his body was found in 2004.

by **Docloads** » Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:47 pm

JMAN723 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:40 pm I always felt the Lucchese’s or Agro did it. I never bought the whole “Gotti killed him” theory. I have heard that Souone was killed by the Bergin Crew but who knows

Henry Hill was far gone mentally by the time he wrote that second book, Gotti didn't kill him. Agro had a Queens restaurant that Tommy DeSimone frequented which was possibly used in the setup for Facciolo and Tuddy Vario (as stated by D'Arco in Mob Boss). So in essence, perhaps Agro AND the Lucchese's were all involved. The burial site itself proves mostly that the Gambino's had a role in it. Agro was a capable guy from the same part of Queens.

by **JMAN723** » Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:40 pm

I always felt the Lucchese’s or Agro did it. I never bought the whole “Gotti killed him” theory. I have heard that Souone was killed by the Bergin Crew but who knows

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:17 am

Something else pretty interesting is that Thomas agro killed a desimone brother called Anthony, but there is no records of a Anthony desimone ever existing.

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:51 am

axx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:22 pm There's some info on Tommy in Lufthansa FBI files distributed on this site.
1. Thomas James DeSimone, born in June 6 1946
2. A source provided info Tommy was whacked because he had physically abused Dellacroce's son on at least two occasions, as he was dating Tommy's GF while he was in prison. After the second incident a contract was put on Desimone and it was carried out by Desimone's people so that "outsiders would not have to clean their house".
3. A night time robbery took place 7 months before Lufthansa heist and in a similar fashion 5 robbers were wearing ski masks stealing 2 mil worth of batteries. Wouldn't be surprised is Tommy was involved.

Wow that’s really interesting. Didn’t know Thomas desimone was born much earlier than he is listed online , in some books they claim he was 10 years younger than Henry hill or that he was 23 in 1973 as said in Sal polisis book. Secondly I never knew that he abused Neil’s son if that’s true then that’s definitely the reason he was wacked and you said a source I think the source would be willy boy Johnson.

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:47 am

peteyboxcars wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:44 am
Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:54 pm
Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm In Joe Dogs book, he stated that Tommy AND his brother Bobby were both killed by Tommy Agro. I tend to favor the D'Arco theory because it makes more sense.
I should note, Tommy's brother's name was Anthony. Joseph Spione was suspected to be murdered because he was supposed to help lure Tommy DeSimone to his death but backed out at the last minute. Spione was found in the same mafia graveyard as Sonny Red, Big Trin and Phil Lucky (the 3 capos.)
believe that burial spot was used by both Gotti's Queens crew and the Bonannos. So its possible the Gambino's killed Spione. I tend to believe that Paul Vario had his crew murder Tommy since he was on record with the Luccheses

Yup. Think so too as he was last seen with some lucchese guys. I think Joseph Spione was killed by the gotti crew because he helped Thomas desimone killed Ronald jerothe back In 74 , and if I remember correctly Spione wasn’t with any crew so why they killed him.

by **axx** » Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:22 pm

There's some info on Tommy in Lufthansa FBI files distributed on this site.
1. Thomas James DeSimone, born in June 6 1946
2. A source provided info Tommy was whacked because he had physically abused Dellacroce's son on at least two occasions, as he was dating Tommy's GF while he was in prison. After the second incident a contract was put on Desimone and it was carried out by Desimone's people so that "outsiders would not have to clean their house".
3. A night time robbery took place 7 months before Lufthansa heist and in a similar fashion 5 robbers were wearing ski masks stealing 2 mil worth of batteries. Wouldn't be surprised is Tommy was involved.

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:53 am

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:05 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:49 am There's an interesting theory that the actually killing of the Lufthansa people who full-on disappeared (Tommy DeSimone, Louis and Joanna Cafora) was farmed out to the DeMeo Crew.

Though I personally believe the Lucchese internal house-cleaning done by Facciola theory.
That’s a very interesting theory, if Facciola was having a hard time getting to Desimone, it would make sense for him to farm the hit out to the Demeo crew.

Interesting theory but I do think that the hit was done by the luccheses because in one of ruggiano jrs YT vids he said that he and his father visited Paul Vario and something was said and Paul said that he takes care of his own mess or to that extent.

by **slimshady_007** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:05 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:49 am There's an interesting theory that the actually killing of the Lufthansa people who full-on disappeared (Tommy DeSimone, Louis and Joanna Cafora) was farmed out to the DeMeo Crew.

Though I personally believe the Lucchese internal house-cleaning done by Facciola theory.

That’s a very interesting theory, if Facciola was having a hard time getting to Desimone, it would make sense for him to farm the hit out to the Demeo crew.

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:45 pm

peteyboxcars wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:44 am
Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:54 pm
Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm In Joe Dogs book, he stated that Tommy AND his brother Bobby were both killed by Tommy Agro. I tend to favor the D'Arco theory because it makes more sense.
I should note, Tommy's brother's name was Anthony. Joseph Spione was suspected to be murdered because he was supposed to help lure Tommy DeSimone to his death but backed out at the last minute. Spione was found in the same mafia graveyard as Sonny Red, Big Trin and Phil Lucky (the 3 capos.)
believe that burial spot was used by both Gotti's Queens crew and the Bonannos. So its possible the Gambino's killed Spione. I tend to believe that Paul Vario had his crew murder Tommy since he was on record with the Luccheses

This is the most likely outcome .

by **peteyboxcars** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:44 am

Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:54 pm
Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm In Joe Dogs book, he stated that Tommy AND his brother Bobby were both killed by Tommy Agro. I tend to favor the D'Arco theory because it makes more sense.
I should note, Tommy's brother's name was Anthony. Joseph Spione was suspected to be murdered because he was supposed to help lure Tommy DeSimone to his death but backed out at the last minute. Spione was found in the same mafia graveyard as Sonny Red, Big Trin and Phil Lucky (the 3 capos.)

believe that burial spot was used by both Gotti's Queens crew and the Bonannos. So its possible the Gambino's killed Spione. I tend to believe that Paul Vario had his crew murder Tommy since he was on record with the Luccheses

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 7:56 am

Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm In Joe Dogs book, he stated that Tommy AND his brother Bobby were both killed by Tommy Agro. I tend to favor the D'Arco theory because it makes more sense.

The other Desimone brother that died was called anthony who was killed by agro during the mid 70s. Bobby desimone died in a prison but out lived All his brothers. I also read in joe dogs book that agro said about tommy d that he killed some members of the gambinos one of them was Called billy batts.

by **Docloads** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:54 pm

Docloads wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm In Joe Dogs book, he stated that Tommy AND his brother Bobby were both killed by Tommy Agro. I tend to favor the D'Arco theory because it makes more sense.

I should note, Tommy's brother's name was Anthony. Joseph Spione was suspected to be murdered because he was supposed to help lure Tommy DeSimone to his death but backed out at the last minute. Spione was found in the same mafia graveyard as Sonny Red, Big Trin and Phil Lucky (the 3 capos.)

by **Docloads** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm

In Joe Dogs book, he stated that Tommy AND his brother Bobby were both killed by Tommy Agro. I tend to favor the D'Arco theory because it makes more sense.

by **Makelaiusiwk** » Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:19 am

rayray wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:01 am I read somewhere that when it was decided on Tommy D going that the Gotti's wanted to do it for various reasons but Vario said we take care of our own or something to that effect

Vario was a heavy weight

Another guy Vario protected from the Gambino's was Angelo Sepe

Yea that’s what I have heard too, makes complete sense .

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