This Thing Of Ours
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by Coloboy » Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:34 am
by PolackTony » Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:32 am
Coloboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 7:55 am Thanks, Tony. Good stuff. One of the things I question is whether Battaglia and Alderisio were ever actually "official" as boss. The intel seems to vary, but some of it points to the fact that Ricca/Accardo were the top of the hierarchy during the entire 66-72 period, and that the others were acting or never actually in the spot to begin with. For what it's worth, Frank Cullota told a story about waiting outside a meeting to pick up Tony Spilotro where they were either finding out who was named boss, or somehow voting/weighing in on who was going to be boss. He claims Spilotro was not happy at the time that Alderisio had gotten the position. I suppose that's one strike in favor of Milwaukee Phil being "official". Although if you watch Cullota's interviews, he didn't seem to have the best grasp on hierarchy and who was who. What is your take on Accardo's role 1974-1992?
by Snakes » Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:16 am
by Coloboy » Mon Sep 23, 2024 7:55 am
by PolackTony » Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:42 pm
Coloboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 2:08 pm I know most of you have read this 1972 FBI memo, but I find it interesting for one primary reason. https://www.archives.gov/files/research ... 292973.pdf Accardo explicitly states that “he will remain top leader of organized crime, and Ricca will not be replaced” This certainly lends credence to the fact that whatever positions Accardo and Ricca held prior to Aiuppa truly stepping up, were “official” positions. Meaning they were officially recognized as the top authorities in the hierarchy. It certainly seems that prior to his death, Ricca was truly sharing power with Accardo as is often discussed . It seems likely that this was the case for the entire period post Giancana and up until Aiuppa. I suppose the question remains as to whether Accardos position remained “official “after Aiuppa stepped up.
by PolackTony » Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:22 pm
Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 4:04 am Antiliar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 1:07 am Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:30 pm PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:02 am NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:32 pm I highly doubt any of the 'only a made guy can introduce another made guy' stuff ever existed there. From Nicky Calabrese’s testimony: It's amico not amigo so this testimony transcript is totally worthless That's not how it works. A one letter mistake doesn't cancel out an entire document. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is an overreaction and it's not how research is done. Almost every court transcript has mistakes, whether it's a typo from the court reporter by hitting the wrong key or not knowing how to spell a word, or a witness not pronouncing a word correctly. You have to accept that reality and work around it by being familiar with the subject and carefully reading the context. So was the transfer by an agent the issue though? I'm not believing that Nick Calabrese thought it was Portuguese
Antiliar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 1:07 am Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:30 pm PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:02 am NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:32 pm I highly doubt any of the 'only a made guy can introduce another made guy' stuff ever existed there. From Nicky Calabrese’s testimony: It's amico not amigo so this testimony transcript is totally worthless That's not how it works. A one letter mistake doesn't cancel out an entire document. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is an overreaction and it's not how research is done. Almost every court transcript has mistakes, whether it's a typo from the court reporter by hitting the wrong key or not knowing how to spell a word, or a witness not pronouncing a word correctly. You have to accept that reality and work around it by being familiar with the subject and carefully reading the context.
Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:30 pm PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:02 am NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:32 pm I highly doubt any of the 'only a made guy can introduce another made guy' stuff ever existed there. From Nicky Calabrese’s testimony: It's amico not amigo so this testimony transcript is totally worthless
PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:02 am NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:32 pm I highly doubt any of the 'only a made guy can introduce another made guy' stuff ever existed there. From Nicky Calabrese’s testimony:
NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:32 pm I highly doubt any of the 'only a made guy can introduce another made guy' stuff ever existed there.
by Coloboy » Sun Sep 22, 2024 2:08 pm
by Coloboy » Sun Sep 22, 2024 12:39 pm
B. wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:34 pm Excellent post, Coloboy. The only major addition/amendment is that Chicago is confirmed to have had a formal consiglio (council), a body found in the Sicilian mafia and most early US Families that included the administration, select captains, and even elder soldiers or former leaders who no longer held official rank in the hierarchy. This body voted on matters of life and death, policy, and other issues relevant to the organization's inner-workings and had an elected chairman or secretary who presided over the consiglio's activities. This wasn't a part of the top-down hierarchy that issued direct orders or involved itself in the standard of chain of command but the hierarchy was nonetheless reflected in the consiglio even though it didn't define it. People have long been aware of Chicago's "board of directors" or a "panel" but this was confirmed by Frank Bompensiero via Phil Alderisio to be a formal consiglio, the very same body reported by sources in other Families and overseas. Those who sat on the consiglio were thus consiglieri and the chairman/secretary was akin to what we'd call official consigliere in other Families who utilized only one. A big issue with Chicago exceptionalism and the insistence that Chicago was "different" is that those making these claims very rarely if ever have the comparative framework or broader knowledge of the mafia phenomenon as a whole to make that judgment and are often interpreting/misinterpreting info that is vague to begin with. I say that not as a slight, as it's an overwhelming amount of info to consume, but it takes on a different dimension when someone dismisses actual evidence or tries to force a narrative. Unfortunately those narratives are particularly popular with Chicago.
by Newyorkempire » Sun Sep 22, 2024 4:04 am
by Antiliar » Sun Sep 22, 2024 1:07 am
by Newyorkempire » Sat Sep 21, 2024 8:54 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:30 pm Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:13 pm PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:47 pm It's actually "amigo", given that it's Portuguese. Who speaks Portuguese?? Wtf It’s a reference to Fish Cafaro who for some reason believed that the phrase “amico nostro” was of Portuguese derivation.
Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:13 pm PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:47 pm It's actually "amigo", given that it's Portuguese. Who speaks Portuguese?? Wtf
PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:47 pm It's actually "amigo", given that it's Portuguese.
by PolackTony » Sat Sep 21, 2024 5:30 pm
by Newyorkempire » Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:13 pm
by PolackTony » Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:47 pm
by Newyorkempire » Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:30 pm
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