THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Don Mosseria** » Tue May 16, 2023 2:01 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:19 pm
If I remember right, it was in his book.

Great, thanks Wiseguy - I’ll have a search! Cheers

by **Wiseguy** » Tue May 16, 2023 1:19 pm

Don Mosseria wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:11 pm
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:58 pm
As far as New York goes, Gravano said the thinking around the time Junior Gotti was made in the late 1980s was that, "You are what your father is" (since you carry his name). Perhaps this was used to justify making Junior, who was 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Russian. Anyway, it seems Massino and other mob leaders changed it back to full Italian (which seems to basically mean the candidate's father and mother have Italian names) in the early 2000's.
Hey Wiseguy - do you know where Gravano made that quote? Was it in his book, or on YouTube somewhere? I would love to track it down. Thanks!

If I remember right, it was in his book.

by **Don Mosseria** » Tue May 16, 2023 1:11 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:58 pm
As far as New York goes, Gravano said the thinking around the time Junior Gotti was made in the late 1980s was that, "You are what your father is" (since you carry his name). Perhaps this was used to justify making Junior, who was 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Russian. Anyway, it seems Massino and other mob leaders changed it back to full Italian (which seems to basically mean the candidate's father and mother have Italian names) in the early 2000's.

Hey Wiseguy - do you know where Gravano made that quote? Was it in his book, or on YouTube somewhere? I would love to track it down. Thanks!

by B. » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:11 am

davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:54 am
B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:49 am
davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:40 am
B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:26 am Phillips could have been an Americanized take on Filipelli his family took on, don't know enough about his background. He looks like the ultimate roided up Italian. Then again, Veasey may not have been Italian on his father's side and he got through at that time.

According to FamilySearch, Frank Salemme's paternal grandfather was from Avellino and married his wife in Newark, her surname being Capone and she came from the same hometown in Avellino. Frank's father was born in MA and married a woman named Haverty, both of her parents Irish. So it's true Salemme's father's side was 100% Italian and his mother's side 100% Irish. Not that weird for the era given they brought in a number of paternal half-Italians in different cities.
So was Jackie Salemme inducted into the Mafia at the same time as Frank or later?
Don't know anything about them. Just looked him up out of curiosity.

I talked to a former NYC associate who did prison time with Salemme after they both flipped. He said Salemme is a character and liked doing time with him, though he said Salemme hated John Gotti more than anyone in the life. No clue if there's a backstory -- the NYC guy wasn't with the Gambinos.
Thanks for your message B and according to this article Gotti supported the renegade faction against Salemme.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1059238 ... ration-25/ I think that the FBI informant mentioned is Mercurio or Flemmi.

Ahh, makes total sense. When I was told that I assumed it was for the usual reasons people complain about Gotti, i.e. ego, publicity, etc. Thanks for the info.

by **davidf1989** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:54 am

B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:49 am
davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:40 am
B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:26 am Phillips could have been an Americanized take on Filipelli his family took on, don't know enough about his background. He looks like the ultimate roided up Italian. Then again, Veasey may not have been Italian on his father's side and he got through at that time.

According to FamilySearch, Frank Salemme's paternal grandfather was from Avellino and married his wife in Newark, her surname being Capone and she came from the same hometown in Avellino. Frank's father was born in MA and married a woman named Haverty, both of her parents Irish. So it's true Salemme's father's side was 100% Italian and his mother's side 100% Irish. Not that weird for the era given they brought in a number of paternal half-Italians in different cities.
So was Jackie Salemme inducted into the Mafia at the same time as Frank or later?
Don't know anything about them. Just looked him up out of curiosity.

I talked to a former NYC associate who did prison time with Salemme after they both flipped. He said Salemme is a character and liked doing time with him, though he said Salemme hated John Gotti more than anyone in the life. No clue if there's a backstory -- the NYC guy wasn't with the Gambinos.

Thanks for your message B and according to this article Gotti supported the renegade faction against Salemme.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1059238 ... ration-25/ I think that the FBI informant mentioned is Mercurio or Flemmi.

by B. » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:49 am

davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:40 am
B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:26 am Phillips could have been an Americanized take on Filipelli his family took on, don't know enough about his background. He looks like the ultimate roided up Italian. Then again, Veasey may not have been Italian on his father's side and he got through at that time.

According to FamilySearch, Frank Salemme's paternal grandfather was from Avellino and married his wife in Newark, her surname being Capone and she came from the same hometown in Avellino. Frank's father was born in MA and married a woman named Haverty, both of her parents Irish. So it's true Salemme's father's side was 100% Italian and his mother's side 100% Irish. Not that weird for the era given they brought in a number of paternal half-Italians in different cities.
So was Jackie Salemme inducted into the Mafia at the same time as Frank or later?

Don't know anything about them. Just looked him up out of curiosity.

I talked to a former NYC associate who did prison time with Salemme after they both flipped. He said Salemme is a character and liked doing time with him, though he said Salemme hated John Gotti more than anyone in the life. No clue if there's a backstory -- the NYC guy wasn't with the Gambinos.

by **PolackTony** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:42 am

FWIW I’ve seen a bunch of Anglicized surnames in Philly, particularly among the mainlanders. DiGuglielmo -> Williams, Campobello -> Campbell, etc. I agree with B that Filippelli may very well have been the original family surname and Vincent Filipelli just changed it back, as there were a bunch of Filippelli/Filippellos in Philly.

by **davidf1989** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:40 am

B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:26 am Phillips could have been an Americanized take on Filipelli his family took on, don't know enough about his background. He looks like the ultimate roided up Italian. Then again, Veasey may not have been Italian on his father's side and he got through at that time.

According to FamilySearch, Frank Salemme's paternal grandfather was from Avellino and married his wife in Newark, her surname being Capone and she came from the same hometown in Avellino. Frank's father was born in MA and married a woman named Haverty, both of her parents Irish. So it's true Salemme's father's side was 100% Italian and his mother's side 100% Irish. Not that weird for the era given they brought in a number of paternal half-Italians in different cities.

So was Jackie Salemme inducted into the Mafia at the same time as Frank or later?

by B. » Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:26 am

Phillips could have been an Americanized take on Filipelli his family took on, don't know enough about his background. He looks like the ultimate roided up Italian. Then again, Veasey may not have been Italian on his father's side and he got through at that time.

According to FamilySearch, Frank Salemme's paternal grandfather was from Avellino and married his wife in Newark, her surname being Capone and she came from the same hometown in Avellino. Frank's father was born in MA and married a woman named Haverty, both of her parents Irish. So it's true Salemme's father's side was 100% Italian and his mother's side 100% Irish. Not that weird for the era given they brought in a number of paternal half-Italians in different cities.

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:26 pm

Browniety86 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:31 pmWas Andrew Merola really a Knapik or a Merola? That was the only other one besides the guys you had listed, Porter and Gotti Jr came to my mind immediately...Veasey who tf knows if he was made or not

Below is the obituary of his father, Andrew Knapik Sr, who died in 2014. His wife's maiden name is Luzzi.

Of course, there's also been the talk on the forums for years about him being adopted. And the thinking that Merola was the name of his birth father or mother.

I don't know if he was adopted or not. I do have a hard time believing he would have ever been made if he wasn't partially Italian.

Andrew C. Knapik, Sr., 80, passed away peacefully at home on December 26, 2014. Born and raised in Thompson, PA and 46 year resident of East Hanover. Andrew was a US Army Veteran, graduate from Newark College of Engineering and retired after working many years with Bel-Fuse in Jersey City. He was also a member of over 40 years in the East Hanover Knights of Columbus Council 6504. Beloved husband of 54 years to the late Rosemarie (Luzzi). Devoted father of Andrew Merola, his wife Maria, and Michele Campbell. Devoted grandfather of Nick, Andrew, Domenick, Justis and Jace. Dear brother of Anne, Veroncia, Dolores, Charlie, Billy and the lates Elizabeth, Louis, Josephine, John, Philip and Michael. Also many loving nieces and nephews.

Visitation at the Leonardis Memorial Home 210 Ridgedale Ave. Florham Park on Sunday from 2-4 & 7-9pm. Funeral on Monday assembling at 11:30am followed by a mass at St. Rose of Lima Church in East Hanover at 12:30pm.

In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the East Hanover Knights of Columbus.

https://www.leonardismemorialhome.com/o ... w-KnapikSr

There's also Vincent Filipelli in Philadelphia, who's name was Phillips before he changed it. I'm guessing it's a somewhat similar situation where he had Italian blood down the line and changed his name accordingly once the mob became his career path.

by **PolackTony** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:48 pm

MickeyMeatballs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:25 pm and wasn’t Jimmy Marcelo half-Irish with a different mother from his also made half-brother Mickey?

Jimmy Marcello’s mother was indeed Irish, but his parents split when he was a young kid and his dad remarried an Italian woman, who was Mickey’s mother. It’s quite possible that people didn’t actually know that he wasn’t full Italian; for example, his stepmother was described as his “mother” on her obituary. In an entertaining highlight from the Family Secrets trial, Marcello’s defense used Nick C’s testimony that one had to be full Italian to be made in order to argue that Marcello therefore couldn’t have been made (it didn’t work).

BTW, there’s no evidence that Mickey Marcello was ever made. Seems pretty clear to me that he wasn’t made in the 80s/90s, so if he was ever made it would’ve been since then. Give that we have so little info on the modern period in Chicago, I suppose it’s possible, but I’ve heard that Mickey was considered a nobody after Jimmy got sent away, which would suggest that he was never made.

Frank Calabrese Sr also thought that Chicago member Jimmy “Poker” DiForti was half-Ital, and was indignant that they would make Jimmy Poker and not Ronnie Jarrett. When I looked into DiForti’s genealogy, I actually wasn’t able to establish that the woman who was later called his mother (who wasn’t Italian) was his birth mother, as she didn’t marry his dad until years after he was born. But, either way, he had an Italian surname and Ronnie didn’t.

by **CornerBoy** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:33 pm

and ppl think that rat's words are gospel-- salemme didnt tell the truth-- most don't unfortnuately for the govt

by **Browniety86** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:31 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:58 pm
MickeyMeatballs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:25 pm
NothingNew44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:56 pm
Browniety86 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:40 pm I was reading an article about a meeting Salemme had with Gambino capo Natale Richichi in '91, a meeting the FBI happened to be listening to in the hotel room beside...my question is, is it at all odd the Gambinos were recognizing Frank as boss when he's only half Italian? Might be a dumb question but it struck me as odd...
At one point there was only a requirement to be made on your fathers side and have Italian last name. I cannot think of the specific dates, but there’s many examples of only half Italian guys getting inducted. CC, Pogo, B, Wiseguy, one of them might be able to provide the timeframe.
Not Wiseguy or Pogo (who will both know better) but off the top of my head I can think of Junior Gotti who’s mother was half-Russian, John Veasey (made by Stanfa), Chuckie Porter out of Pittsburgh who was made by Mike Genovese IIRC, because his Sicilian mother was I think Genovese’s sister or something like that, Tommy Del was apparently half-Polish by took care not to let anyone know, and wasn’t Jimmy Marcelo half-Irish with a different mother from his also made half-brother Mickey?

Joe Bravo claimed to be made when he sat down with Sicilians to discuss Rizzuto business but i don’t think that’s been verified.
I’ve also seen some talk that Andy Campos did actually have a Greek heritage after being decided to be Italian (but earns so much at this point I don’t think any Gambinos care).
I’ve read that Nick Festa is half-Irish, a Bonnano guy.
Other side of the Atlantic, but I always thought Scottish born Brandon Queen being a supposedly official Cammorristi was interesting.
In Australia, we see heaps of dudes with Aussie mothers being arrested and recognised as members of ‘ndrine, generally the sons of guys who were big in the 70’s and 80’s.
As far as New York goes, Gravano said the thinking around the time Junior Gotti was made in the late 1980s was that, "You are what your father is" (since you carry his name). Perhaps this was used to justify making Junior, who was 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Russian. Anyway, it seems Massino and other mob leaders changed it back to full Italian (which seems to basically mean the candidate's father and mother have Italian names) in the early 2000's.

Was Andrew Merola really a Knapik or a Merola? That was the only other one besides the guys you had listed, Porter and Gotti Jr came to my mind immediately...Veasey who tf knows if he was made or not

by **CornerBoy** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:58 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:56 pm I wonder how Frank Jr contracted AIDS. Steroids, heroin, backdoor shenanigans? Or blood transfusion a la Scarpa?

heroin or roids although the official line is pnemonia

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:58 pm

MickeyMeatballs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:25 pm
NothingNew44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:56 pm
Browniety86 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:40 pm I was reading an article about a meeting Salemme had with Gambino capo Natale Richichi in '91, a meeting the FBI happened to be listening to in the hotel room beside...my question is, is it at all odd the Gambinos were recognizing Frank as boss when he's only half Italian? Might be a dumb question but it struck me as odd...
At one point there was only a requirement to be made on your fathers side and have Italian last name. I cannot think of the specific dates, but there’s many examples of only half Italian guys getting inducted. CC, Pogo, B, Wiseguy, one of them might be able to provide the timeframe.
Not Wiseguy or Pogo (who will both know better) but off the top of my head I can think of Junior Gotti who’s mother was half-Russian, John Veasey (made by Stanfa), Chuckie Porter out of Pittsburgh who was made by Mike Genovese IIRC, because his Sicilian mother was I think Genovese’s sister or something like that, Tommy Del was apparently half-Polish by took care not to let anyone know, and wasn’t Jimmy Marcelo half-Irish with a different mother from his also made half-brother Mickey?

Joe Bravo claimed to be made when he sat down with Sicilians to discuss Rizzuto business but i don’t think that’s been verified.
I’ve also seen some talk that Andy Campos did actually have a Greek heritage after being decided to be Italian (but earns so much at this point I don’t think any Gambinos care).
I’ve read that Nick Festa is half-Irish, a Bonnano guy.
Other side of the Atlantic, but I always thought Scottish born Brandon Queen being a supposedly official Cammorristi was interesting.
In Australia, we see heaps of dudes with Aussie mothers being arrested and recognised as members of ‘ndrine, generally the sons of guys who were big in the 70’s and 80’s.

As far as New York goes, Gravano said the thinking around the time Junior Gotti was made in the late 1980s was that, "You are what your father is" (since you carry his name). Perhaps this was used to justify making Junior, who was 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Russian. Anyway, it seems Massino and other mob leaders changed it back to full Italian (which seems to basically mean the candidate's father and mother have Italian names) in the early 2000's.

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