General Mob Questions

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Re: General Mob Questions

by Roose » Sat Feb 15, 2025 3:11 pm

What’s the status of the Stidda nowadays?

Re: General Mob Questions

by B. » Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:47 pm

Medicated wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 1:34 pm Does anyone happen to know if there's any formal protocol for handling introductions where the person in question isn't a made man, but is formally inducted in some other Italian OC group? I imagine that if, say, a Buffalo member is introduced to an inducted 'Ndranghetista from Toronto there's probably a need to have a way to note that rather than just calling him 'a friend of mine' or whatever.
I've never come across an example. They can't officially recognize each other as "u stessa cosa" but I'm sure it is informally communicated in some way. These guys don't meet in a vacuum so someone who knows them both would surely mention that a guy is affiliated with and important within another Italian organization.

Re: General Mob Questions

by Medicated » Wed Feb 12, 2025 1:34 pm

Does anyone happen to know if there's any formal protocol for handling introductions where the person in question isn't a made man, but is formally inducted in some other Italian OC group? I imagine that if, say, a Buffalo member is introduced to an inducted 'Ndranghetista from Toronto there's probably a need to have a way to note that rather than just calling him 'a friend of mine' or whatever.

Re: General Mob Questions

by B. » Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:04 pm

Bordonaro was definitely involved with the Buffalo Family by the 1920s as Magaddino tells a story on one of his tapes about Bordonaro being involved in a situation within the Buffalo Family during that period. Bordonaro's brother lived in Buffalo and he visited often as evidenced by border crossing records. It's very likely to me he was already made in the 1920s.

As for membership, none of what you outlined would have necessarily had an impact on who was a member or when they were made a member. There are of course disputes, factionalism, etc. within a Family (overt or otherwise) and on an operational level there are all kinds of business relationships that don't directly reflect the organizational set-up. Bordonaro, Papalia, Silvestro, and even Perri all could have been members of the Buffalo Family (in additional to the latter three being Camorristi) while being involved in various business arrangements and managing tensions with Magaddino.

We don't know if Perri was a Buffalo member but even if he wasn't, nothing would have prevented Calogero Bordonaro from being a made member working with or for Perri unless his rappresentante explicitly ordered him not to and that would be done on a specific basis, not the result of a blanket rule.

Re: General Mob Questions

by antimafia » Tue Feb 11, 2025 2:37 pm

precluded *Bordonaro from being made by Magaddino while Bordonaro was paid a salary by Perri

Re: General Mob Questions

by antimafia » Tue Feb 11, 2025 1:33 pm

B. wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 12:50 pm
antimafia wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:16 am From the earliest days of the borgate in the United States, was there ever a rule that a member could not be on the payroll of a racketeer who was not a mafia member?

What I mean by "be on the payroll" is to actually receive a regular salary, e.g., weekly, for committing illicit activity at the behest of the racketeer.
A mafioso could work for or with non-mafiosi in an operational context and there is no issue. Obviously his loyalties are first and foremost to the mafia but I'm not aware of any rule, historic or otherwise, preventing a mafioso from earning money by providing assistance to a non-member.
A thoughtful response. Thanks, B.

Calogero Bordonaro was on the payroll of Rocco Perri in the 1920s. During that period, Perri's partner (romantic; business), the Canadian Jewess Besha (Bessie) Starkman, advanced significant sums of money to Bordonaro for drug deals.

Stefano Magaddino and Perri enormously profited during Prohibition; they needed each other. Each made enough money early on that they never would have had to "work" another day in their life.

But Perri was Magaddino's archenemy. Bordonaro, Antonio Papalia, and Frank Silvestro ("Sylvestro") were Perri loyalists at least up until the end of the 1930s -- the latter two were thus anti-Magaddino. At Perri's invitation, Bordonaro even accompanied him to a wedding in Calabria. By all appearances they were friends.

But eventually Papalia, Silvestro, and even Bordonaro withdrew their loyalty to Perri. We've come to know Silvestro and Bordonaro as Buffalo Family members, with Silvestro being the biggest heroin dealer in Canada in the 1950s.

Bordonaro might have pledged his loyalty to Magaddino in the 1920s and been made by the latter; maybe not on both counts, at least not that early. Of course it's quite possible that Magaddino wanted Bordonaro to spy on Perri.

But if Bordonaro were made by Magaddino in the 1920s, then Magaddino had no problem with the former being on Perri's payroll. I thought that this fact could have precluded Perri from being made by Magaddino while Bordonaro was paid a salary by Perri.

Re: General Mob Questions

by B. » Tue Feb 11, 2025 12:50 pm

antimafia wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:16 am From the earliest days of the borgate in the United States, was there ever a rule that a member could not be on the payroll of a racketeer who was not a mafia member?

What I mean by "be on the payroll" is to actually receive a regular salary, e.g., weekly, for committing illicit activity at the behest of the racketeer.
A mafioso could work for or with non-mafiosi in an operational context and there is no issue. Obviously his loyalties are first and foremost to the mafia but I'm not aware of any rule, historic or otherwise, preventing a mafioso from earning money by providing assistance to a non-member.

Re: General Mob Questions

by antimafia » Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:16 am

From the earliest days of the borgate in the United States, was there ever a rule that a member could not be on the payroll of a racketeer who was not a mafia member?

What I mean by "be on the payroll" is to actually receive a regular salary, e.g., weekly, for committing illicit activity at the behest of the racketeer.

Re: General Mob Questions

by johnny_scootch » Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:22 pm

Roose wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:54 am Is minor society the street level stuff or a way of dividing the clans into two different levels of importance?
Both of those are true. The minor society was made up of the younger newer members who couldn't yet be trusted with more important secrets or responsibilities.

You should check out the Substack called American Camorra by Angelo Santino who is a member of this board. It's all about the spin off Camorra organization that formed here in the United States but was very similar to the organization in Italy.

Re: General Mob Questions

by Roose » Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:54 am

johnny_scootch wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:45 pm
Roose wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:13 pm Here’s my question, why were Camorra clans typically bigger than Sicilian mafia families? What influenced the smaller size of Sicilian mafia groups?
Classic Camorra clans had a major and a minor society. Cosa Nostra is organized very differently but in Camorra terms you could say it’s made up entirely of a major society.
Is minor society the street level stuff or a way of dividing the clans into two different levels of importance?

Re: General Mob Questions

by johnny_scootch » Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:45 pm

Roose wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:13 pm Here’s my question, why were Camorra clans typically bigger than Sicilian mafia families? What influenced the smaller size of Sicilian mafia groups?
Classic Camorra clans had a major and a minor society. Cosa Nostra is organized very differently but in Camorra terms you could say it’s made up entirely of a major society.

Re: General Mob Questions

by Roose » Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:13 pm

Here’s my question, why were Camorra clans typically bigger than Sicilian mafia families? What influenced the smaller size of Sicilian mafia groups?

Re: General Mob Questions

by JoeNGallo » Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:25 pm

Can anyone confirm that this Joe Massino (right) with John Gotti (left)? This is the first time I have seen this surveillance picture.

It is from the new History Channel documentary: American Godfather: The Five Families (2024) (narrated by Michael Imperioli)

We all know the story, but the documentary is worth a watch for the video footage (Especially of Valachi, which I haven't seen personally)

Re: General Mob Questions

by JeremyTheJew » Fri Dec 20, 2024 6:58 pm

Nasabeak wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 6:51 pm Two questions:

Outside of the Gotti propaganda, was there any real fear, that any files have demonstrated, either on the part of the overall Gambino Family, OR, on the part of other Families, that Castellano would cooperate?

Secondly, is it known for certain whether Castellano knocked down Nino Gaggi from Capo - and was potentially marking him for murder as Sammy claims, or was it Gotti who knocked him from Capo, as other sources claim?
Was gaggi taken down before going to prison?? Did not know he was taken down at all

Re: General Mob Questions

by motorfab » Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:14 am

Anytime 8-)

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