by Angelo Santino » Tue May 10, 2022 4:19 pm
Antiliar wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:35 pm
The Los Angeles Family for the entirety of its existence was made mostly of members from other places. Very few were homegrown. The Ardizzones came from Sicily, then New Orleans, then Los Angeles. Vito Di Giorgio, the same. Rosario Desimone went from Sicily to Louisiana to Colorado to Los Angeles. Jack Dragna came from Corleone to New York to Los Angeles. Johnny Rosselli from Italy to Boston then to Los Angeles with several stopovers in between. Jimmy Fratianno came from Italy to Cleveland, just like the Milanos. Jimmy Caci came from Buffalo. You get the picture. Los Angeles depended on being constantly reconstituted. However, it never dissolved and and was reformed from scratch decades later. Likewise, there's no evidence that the Cleveland or Buffalo families ever dissolved. If Russell Papalardo made new members locally or brought them in from other parts of the country - or even Italy - it would fit within the norms of the Cosa Nostra.
However, if someone wanted to remake the old Newark or Birmingham families, that would be new and different. So far, like CC said, that's never happened.
And just to reiterate, we're not advocating some conspiracy where the mafia is slowly regrowing by "making money not headlines" but that the network has changed and evolved. If we were in 1920 and all went through the 1910's when Blackhand Crimes were a daily occurrence, we in 1920 might say "The Black Hand is still around but they're not as powerful as they were." Well, these so-called Black Handers shifted their focus based on economics and evolution, once Prohibition offered more financial rewards people went into that. Let's jump to today where we expect grunt soldiers standing outside of clubs in leather jackets who go out and commit crime and send the proceeds on up. We're not seeing that like we used to so we could conclude that the LCN is declining based on that criteria. I'd argue we're making the same mistake if we were in 1920 concluding that the Black Hand Society is dead because extortion letters declined and buildings weren't being blown up to the extent that they were. The Mafia is an organic entity, not a static one. It needs not explain or justify itself to outsiders.
I enjoyed Sonny's criteria for what a family is because that's what we, as outsiders, researchers and investigators look for. But within the Mafia themselves they would find that criteria to be immaterial in regards to internal politics. William D'Elia was the sole member of Scranton and Boss and he was politically linked to NY and Philadelphia in the 90's. No one said, "You are only one man, have no soldiers, no admin, haven't made anyone in 10 years so you're not LCN." That's a fact, and given that it's their organization their opinion means more than ours, they are not obligated to pick so and so and make so many people just we can call them a Mafia Family.
But you need a loyal opposition. If we're not careful then holy shit, every family is still around just not getting arrested. That's the other side of the extreme which is why Pogo and Wiseguy act as a solid checks and balances. They can be frustrating but they are the other side of the pivot. And it helps to have different takes in all of this. No one has the entire picture.
[quote=Antiliar post_id=228178 time=1652222136 user_id=77]
The Los Angeles Family for the entirety of its existence was made mostly of members from other places. Very few were homegrown. The Ardizzones came from Sicily, then New Orleans, then Los Angeles. Vito Di Giorgio, the same. Rosario Desimone went from Sicily to Louisiana to Colorado to Los Angeles. Jack Dragna came from Corleone to New York to Los Angeles. Johnny Rosselli from Italy to Boston then to Los Angeles with several stopovers in between. Jimmy Fratianno came from Italy to Cleveland, just like the Milanos. Jimmy Caci came from Buffalo. You get the picture. Los Angeles depended on being constantly reconstituted. However, it never dissolved and and was reformed from scratch decades later. Likewise, there's no evidence that the Cleveland or Buffalo families ever dissolved. If Russell Papalardo made new members locally or brought them in from other parts of the country - or even Italy - it would fit within the norms of the Cosa Nostra.
However, if someone wanted to remake the old Newark or Birmingham families, that would be new and different. So far, like CC said, that's never happened.
[/quote]
And just to reiterate, we're not advocating some conspiracy where the mafia is slowly regrowing by "making money not headlines" but that the network has changed and evolved. If we were in 1920 and all went through the 1910's when Blackhand Crimes were a daily occurrence, we in 1920 might say "The Black Hand is still around but they're not as powerful as they were." Well, these so-called Black Handers shifted their focus based on economics and evolution, once Prohibition offered more financial rewards people went into that. Let's jump to today where we expect grunt soldiers standing outside of clubs in leather jackets who go out and commit crime and send the proceeds on up. We're not seeing that like we used to so we could conclude that the LCN is declining based on that criteria. I'd argue we're making the same mistake if we were in 1920 concluding that the Black Hand Society is dead because extortion letters declined and buildings weren't being blown up to the extent that they were. The Mafia is an organic entity, not a static one. It needs not explain or justify itself to outsiders.
I enjoyed Sonny's criteria for what a family is because that's what we, as outsiders, researchers and investigators look for. But within the Mafia themselves they would find that criteria to be immaterial in regards to internal politics. William D'Elia was the sole member of Scranton and Boss and he was politically linked to NY and Philadelphia in the 90's. No one said, "You are only one man, have no soldiers, no admin, haven't made anyone in 10 years so you're not LCN." That's a fact, and given that it's their organization their opinion means more than ours, they are not obligated to pick so and so and make so many people just we can call them a Mafia Family.
But you need a loyal opposition. If we're not careful then holy shit, every family is still around just not getting arrested. That's the other side of the extreme which is why Pogo and Wiseguy act as a solid checks and balances. They can be frustrating but they are the other side of the pivot. And it helps to have different takes in all of this. No one has the entire picture.