THE BLACK HAND FORUM

B. wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 11:07 pm Be a great April Fools next year.

"Joe Pistone finally WHACKED. Mancuso pays $500k to hitman"

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:30 am

Adam wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:48 am

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:15 pm

Ryan98366 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:06 pm I believe Massino more than I believe Pistone. Even Capeci has said there isn’t a $500,000 murder contract on him. Pistone won’t let it go that he is in hiding and the mob is looking to kill him. And Sonny Black had his hands cut off as a message that Pistone shook hands with made men.

Pistone needed to stop this 30 years ago, I be he will never stop.

This idea that Pistone made up the rationale for the Sonny Black hit to make himself seem more important is beyond silly. Sonny Black being killed for Pistone was the logical conclusion for 25 years until Massino testified. It’s not like Pistone knew “the real story” all along and was changing it to make himself look more important. If you could go back in time to the early 80s and poll everyone associated with the 5 Families and ask why Sonny Black was killed, I’m guessing over 90% of them say it was because of Pistone. And not because Pistone was telling everyone that, but because that was the most rational explanation for the death at the time.

And as far as getting names mixed up or forgetting certain storylines….every single one of these guys does the same thing. Richard Canterella had a tremendous interview with Scott but he said several times throughout the interview that a lot of the details are hazy to him. And that Scott would likely know the details better. And not because he’s some big liar….but it’s because this stuff happened 20-30-40 years ago. Same with Phil Leonetti. His interview with Bet-David had several parts where he couldn’t remember someone’s nickname or other detail, and Bet-David had to provide it for him. And it’s not because Leonetti told so many lies he can’t keep his story straight. It’s because a lot of these guys are likely ashamed of their past and subconsciously try and forget much of it.

I think this is a really good point. You have to remember that most of us here research this stuff as a form of interesting history. Like some people obsess about the Civil War or World War II. And we read things constantly and have a firm timeline in our head of when things happen because we've read researched books. But for informants and government witnesses, they're recounting things from their lives, and you don't research your own life. Try to think of it in terms of someone asking you when you first met one of your friends. And you're like "Oh I think we first met in the summer of 2003." And the person asking the question has read your biography and the biographies of people who knew you and he's like "No. Wrong, it was the summer of 2004." He'd be an asshole. I think of this example for me. At my old job the company did a trip at the beginning of January each year to the Caribbean as a company retreat. And if someone asked where did you guys go in 2010 and real quick I might say I think we were in the Domincan Republic. And the person goes "Wrong. You went to the Dominican Republic in 2009 and 2011, but in 2010 it was Jamaica." Now if I'm testifying I make sure to get everything right in my mind, but for a random online interview, I might mess some stuff up 20 years later.

Good points. You also have to figure that as researchers we tend to place more importance on dates, events and interactions than a lot of these guys do. What we may think is important was just another day in a lifestyle that spanned decades for them. I'm sure many of these things tend to bleed into each other in their memories.


Pogo

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:15 pm

Ryan98366 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:06 pm I believe Massino more than I believe Pistone. Even Capeci has said there isn’t a $500,000 murder contract on him. Pistone won’t let it go that he is in hiding and the mob is looking to kill him. And Sonny Black had his hands cut off as a message that Pistone shook hands with made men.

Pistone needed to stop this 30 years ago, I be he will never stop.

This idea that Pistone made up the rationale for the Sonny Black hit to make himself seem more important is beyond silly. Sonny Black being killed for Pistone was the logical conclusion for 25 years until Massino testified. It’s not like Pistone knew “the real story” all along and was changing it to make himself look more important. If you could go back in time to the early 80s and poll everyone associated with the 5 Families and ask why Sonny Black was killed, I’m guessing over 90% of them say it was because of Pistone. And not because Pistone was telling everyone that, but because that was the most rational explanation for the death at the time.

And as far as getting names mixed up or forgetting certain storylines….every single one of these guys does the same thing. Richard Canterella had a tremendous interview with Scott but he said several times throughout the interview that a lot of the details are hazy to him. And that Scott would likely know the details better. And not because he’s some big liar….but it’s because this stuff happened 20-30-40 years ago. Same with Phil Leonetti. His interview with Bet-David had several parts where he couldn’t remember someone’s nickname or other detail, and Bet-David had to provide it for him. And it’s not because Leonetti told so many lies he can’t keep his story straight. It’s because a lot of these guys are likely ashamed of their past and subconsciously try and forget much of it.

Uncle Pete wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:31 amIn my opinion there’s no way Pistone hung out with one of the most dangerous crews at the time for years and didn’t commit multiple serious violent crimes

outfit guy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:30 am We now know, from his own letters (writings post Donnie Brasco book publication) that he actually engaged in robberies and other felonies. Outright admissions are provided. When he was transferred to a field office in the south, he had to resign as the SAC made him work and questioned his habits and honesty. Phoning Jules could not help. These guys lived off the mafia; didn't matter other gangs were shooting up the streets. It was about pensions and publicity. The guy is a total scumbag.

Adam wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:48 am

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:15 pm

Ryan98366 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:06 pm I believe Massino more than I believe Pistone. Even Capeci has said there isn’t a $500,000 murder contract on him. Pistone won’t let it go that he is in hiding and the mob is looking to kill him. And Sonny Black had his hands cut off as a message that Pistone shook hands with made men.

Pistone needed to stop this 30 years ago, I be he will never stop.

This idea that Pistone made up the rationale for the Sonny Black hit to make himself seem more important is beyond silly. Sonny Black being killed for Pistone was the logical conclusion for 25 years until Massino testified. It’s not like Pistone knew “the real story” all along and was changing it to make himself look more important. If you could go back in time to the early 80s and poll everyone associated with the 5 Families and ask why Sonny Black was killed, I’m guessing over 90% of them say it was because of Pistone. And not because Pistone was telling everyone that, but because that was the most rational explanation for the death at the time.

And as far as getting names mixed up or forgetting certain storylines….every single one of these guys does the same thing. Richard Canterella had a tremendous interview with Scott but he said several times throughout the interview that a lot of the details are hazy to him. And that Scott would likely know the details better. And not because he’s some big liar….but it’s because this stuff happened 20-30-40 years ago. Same with Phil Leonetti. His interview with Bet-David had several parts where he couldn’t remember someone’s nickname or other detail, and Bet-David had to provide it for him. And it’s not because Leonetti told so many lies he can’t keep his story straight. It’s because a lot of these guys are likely ashamed of their past and subconsciously try and forget much of it.

I think this is a really good point. You have to remember that most of us here research this stuff as a form of interesting history. Like some people obsess about the Civil War or World War II. And we read things constantly and have a firm timeline in our head of when things happen because we've read researched books. But for informants and government witnesses, they're recounting things from their lives, and you don't research your own life. Try to think of it in terms of someone asking you when you first met one of your friends. And you're like "Oh I think we first met in the summer of 2003." And the person asking the question has read your biography and the biographies of people who knew you and he's like "No. Wrong, it was the summer of 2004." He'd be an asshole. I think of this example for me. At my old job the company did a trip at the beginning of January each year to the Caribbean as a company retreat. And if someone asked where did you guys go in 2010 and real quick I might say I think we were in the Domincan Republic. And the person goes "Wrong. You went to the Dominican Republic in 2009 and 2011, but in 2010 it was Jamaica." Now if I'm testifying I make sure to get everything right in my mind, but for a random online interview, I might mess some stuff up 20 years later.

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:15 pm

Ryan98366 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:06 pm I believe Massino more than I believe Pistone. Even Capeci has said there isn’t a $500,000 murder contract on him. Pistone won’t let it go that he is in hiding and the mob is looking to kill him. And Sonny Black had his hands cut off as a message that Pistone shook hands with made men.

Pistone needed to stop this 30 years ago, I be he will never stop.

This idea that Pistone made up the rationale for the Sonny Black hit to make himself seem more important is beyond silly. Sonny Black being killed for Pistone was the logical conclusion for 25 years until Massino testified. It’s not like Pistone knew “the real story” all along and was changing it to make himself look more important. If you could go back in time to the early 80s and poll everyone associated with the 5 Families and ask why Sonny Black was killed, I’m guessing over 90% of them say it was because of Pistone. And not because Pistone was telling everyone that, but because that was the most rational explanation for the death at the time.

And as far as getting names mixed up or forgetting certain storylines….every single one of these guys does the same thing. Richard Canterella had a tremendous interview with Scott but he said several times throughout the interview that a lot of the details are hazy to him. And that Scott would likely know the details better. And not because he’s some big liar….but it’s because this stuff happened 20-30-40 years ago. Same with Phil Leonetti. His interview with Bet-David had several parts where he couldn’t remember someone’s nickname or other detail, and Bet-David had to provide it for him. And it’s not because Leonetti told so many lies he can’t keep his story straight. It’s because a lot of these guys are likely ashamed of their past and subconsciously try and forget much of it.

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:48 am The last time I saw an interview with him was when Mike Franzese interviewed him right around the start of the pandemic. Was still wearing shades in that video but the thing that stuck out to me about that interview was how emotional he got talking about Sonny Black. He was legit choked up at one point.

Ryan98366 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:06 pm I believe Massino more than I believe Pistone. Even Capeci has said there isn’t a $500,000 murder contract on him. Pistone won’t let it go that he is in hiding and the mob is looking to kill him. And Sonny Black had his hands cut off as a message that Pistone shook hands with made men.

Pistone needed to stop this 30 years ago, I be he will never stop.

cosanostra101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:56 am That's the biggest lie that Pistone to this day keeps claiming. Sonny Black was NOT killed for taking Pistone around he was killed for making moves to take over the family. Joe Massino testified to that in court. He's playing that to try to show that he feels responsible for his killing so it must be true. It had absolutely nothing to do with Pistone.