THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by B. » Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:40 pm

Joey Gallo told Jimmy Breslin his problem with Profaci was that Profaci would give money to help Sicilians start businesses when they came to NYC and even if they ran the business into the ground, Profaci would just give them more money to start another business whereas he did nothing to help Americanized members. There was a source very close to Joey Gallo cooperating in the early 1970s who was able to quote him verbatim and communicate all of Gallo's thoughts -- Larry was a CI but dead and I strongly suspect it was Joe himself -- and Gallo seems to have had a very poor understanding of how the mafia worked. Contrast that with similar guys like Scarpa and Persico who understood the system very well. My take is Gallo had no idea what he was getting involved in. That source in the early 70s said Gallo had completely renounced his membership.

Profaci instituting a war chest and taxing members was very controversial according to other sources though. This has happened when others did it like Carlo Gambino or Joe Massino -- as Vinny Asaro screamed outside a social club, "You shouldn't have to pay to be a mafia member." I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Abbatemarco took issue with this though I haven't seen a solid insider breakdown of what happened. It is often an outsider myth that guys are directly killed for money or rackets but it can def be bundled in with other issues going on.

by **gohnjotti** » Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:23 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:15 pm With not "kicking up" or stealing, Bill Bonanno said there was a rule that a member can't be killed for that. He said that was why Salvatore Mangiaracina was instead shelved and forced to leave the US. Mangiaracina was ultimately killed for returning to NYC without permission but not for stealing.

I'm sure guys have been killed for financial infractions but the Family would need to find or invent another justification and typically the kind of guy who steals from the Family is probably fucking up in other ways, i.e. DiBono or Mangiaracina.

People have a perception that tons of murders are for financial infractions but they aren't, at least not directly.

Thanks, B.

For example, in the Frank Abbatemarco case, it was "common knowledge" on the streets that he was killed for withholding money from the administration. That's what went down in the newspapers and was cited as the catalyst for the Gallo War. It goes into Profaci's reputation by writers and media decades later that he was a greedy boss. But, as you alluded to, Profaci would've made some bullshit excuse for it, that he refused to attend a sit-down when called or that he was plotting a power play. Who knows.

by B. » Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:15 pm

With not "kicking up" or stealing, Bill Bonanno said there was a rule that a member can't be killed for that. He said that was why Salvatore Mangiaracina was instead shelved and forced to leave the US. Mangiaracina was ultimately killed for returning to NYC without permission but not for stealing.

I'm sure guys have been killed for financial infractions but the Family would need to find or invent another justification and typically the kind of guy who steals from the Family is probably fucking up in other ways, i.e. DiBono or Mangiaracina.

People have a perception that tons of murders are for financial infractions but they aren't, at least not directly.

by **gohnjotti** » Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:12 pm

Also, PSA - I have dealt with this a few years ago but if anyone sees Facebook accounts, particularly the name "Clinton CeeRay Fussell" republishing my articles on Facebook, please report it to the admins of whatever page he's posting them on. I understand Fussell has reached out to people pretending to be the original creator, I'm not sure what his motives are but it's getting awfully close to identity theft. He's long-since blocked me, so I'm unable to see them.

Anyone posting an article of mine on Facebook that doesn't link to my website is not me, and the person who posted it is likely Fussell or one of his many other fake accounts.

by **gohnjotti** » Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:10 pm

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:28 am
OmarSantista wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:14 pm Without conspiracy or speculation are there any definitive cases where a member got killed for not coming in.
Frank Abbatemarco. While it's not without some speculation, I believe the general consensus is that Joseph Peraino Sr. and Jr. were also targeted for murder for the same reason.

Apologies, I misunderstood this question to mean members getting killed for withholding money/refusing to kick up, as per your previous post. Money, and refusal to kick it up or suspicions of withholding it, is why I understand Abbatemarco and the Perainos were targeted for murder.

by B. » Wed Jun 26, 2024 1:43 pm

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:28 am
OmarSantista wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:14 pm Without conspiracy or speculation are there any definitive cases where a member got killed for not coming in.
Frank Abbatemarco. While it's not without some speculation, I believe the general consensus is that Joseph Peraino Sr. and Jr. were also targeted for murder for the same reason.

During the 1976 conflict, the Yacovelli-Abbatemarco faction was also threatened with murder if they didn't "come in". Yacovelli and Tony Abbatemarco were shelved while Albanese was killed, though I don't know if Albanese was specifically killed for not coming in.

Gotti also said that even though DiBono was accused of stealing from Gravano, DiBono was in fact killed for refusing to come in when called. It's a grave offense to not come in when called. In Philly, even failing to touch base with your captain once a month under regular circumstances (i.e. there's no issue) meant being shelved when Bruno was boss. Bruno even lectured an elderly member in remote Wildwood (a marital relative of Bruno) for failing to do this. It's not surprising Sodano was killed for his infraction given the circumstances were more tense.

Bonanno member Galestro was physically assaulted by his captain when he refused to come in in the 2000s under orders from Basciano. I don't doubt that Basciano would have had him killed if it continued.

by **motorfab** » Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:38 am

HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:29 am
motorfab wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:19 am Does anyone have the exact date of death of Francesco Garofalo (Joe Bonanno's underboss)? It seems he died in 1968, but I'm trying to find out when
I have been looking for the exact DOD but only found Feb, 1969.

Frank Garofalo: Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Death Record
Name: Frank Garofalo
State of Issue: California
Date of Birth: Thursday September 10, 1891
Date of Death: February 1969
Est. Age at Death: 77 years, 5 months

I was quite suspicious of the year 1968 which we see everywhere on the internet because it fell on the year of his trial in Palermo. Although obviously he could have died afterwards. But the month + the year, that amply answers my question, thank you very much HairyKnuckles

by **HairyKnuckles** » Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:29 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:19 am Does anyone have the exact date of death of Francesco Garofalo (Joe Bonanno's underboss)? It seems he died in 1968, but I'm trying to find out when

I have been looking for the exact DOD but only found Feb, 1969.

Frank Garofalo: Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Death Record
Name: Frank Garofalo
State of Issue: California
Date of Birth: Thursday September 10, 1891
Date of Death: February 1969
Est. Age at Death: 77 years, 5 months

by **gohnjotti** » Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:04 pm

Does anyone know which facility Vitale worked in as a "narcotics corrections officer?" From what I can gather, it must've been in the late '60s, early '70s, after his military service, in a New York State prison.

by **motorfab** » Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:19 am

Does anyone have the exact date of death of Francesco Garofalo (Joe Bonanno's underboss)? It seems he died in 1968, but I'm trying to find out when

by **Little_Al1991** » Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:25 am

Valachi testimony included him claiming that Vito “controls the power in the Gambino and Lucchese family” he also stated that Vito is the boss of bosses but in a under the table circumstance

Has this been debunked? I don’t think that this is true

by **Aristotle123** » Sat Jun 08, 2024 11:24 am

Honk wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:37 am
Aristotle123 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:21 pm One would think that having to kick up at all leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of gangsters. Especially those who like to earn mainly by stealing,who are used to taking,not giving
Then you might get situations where some guy you never met gets put as boss. Maybe a guy the crew doesn't think deserves to be boss and who got the job through some kind of nepotism. And now this boss is going to be taking cuts of these guys
And doing what with the money? Spending it all on his own comforts of life?
Maybe if it went for the common good of the crew,such as taking care of families of stand up guys in prison
It’s a tax…..nobody likes paying them, gangster or legit.

Not wanting to pay wasn't as much the point as who they had to pay,and what the money was used for
But you are right that its no different than everybody else often paying taxes to underserving politicians spending it on themselves
That said, guys who owned businesses who paid bosses,and who also paid their taxes to government,were getting taxed twice
Of course,I realize that many of these guys didn't always pay taxes.

by **Honk** » Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:37 am

Aristotle123 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:21 pm One would think that having to kick up at all leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of gangsters. Especially those who like to earn mainly by stealing,who are used to taking,not giving
Then you might get situations where some guy you never met gets put as boss. Maybe a guy the crew doesn't think deserves to be boss and who got the job through some kind of nepotism. And now this boss is going to be taking cuts of these guys
And doing what with the money? Spending it all on his own comforts of life?
Maybe if it went for the common good of the crew,such as taking care of families of stand up guys in prison

It’s a tax…..nobody likes paying them, gangster or legit.

by **gohnjotti** » Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:28 am

OmarSantista wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:14 pm Without conspiracy or speculation are there any definitive cases where a member got killed for not coming in.

Frank Abbatemarco. While it's not without some speculation, I believe the general consensus is that Joseph Peraino Sr. and Jr. were also targeted for murder for the same reason.

by **Pogo The Clown** » Sat Jun 08, 2024 5:21 am

Louie DiVono

Pogo

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