THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Cheech wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:25 pm

Garbageman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:48 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.

That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.

Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!

Hope all is well, buddy. Good to see you post.

Garbageman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:48 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.

That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.

Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:05 am

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:12 pm From what I have heard on this forum and elsewhere, the Colombos are still involved in garbage hauling in Long Island. That racket has existed for the Colombos since the 1960s, when they had near-complete control over certain townships and there were the infamous "garbage wars" between feuding Colombos and Gambinos (this was not an inter-family war, I have seen plenty of cases where Colombo guys were attacking each other over routes). Andrew Russo came to be the head of the Colombo garbage rackets into the 1980s and 1990s. Considering Russo was effectively barred from the garbage hauling industry way back in the '60s and continued to exert control through front men and front companies, it's hard to argue he magically disappeared.

Oh yeah, and Tommy Gioeli's brother Jack is a member of the Syosset Sanitation Board and was the town sanitation commissioner in the late '80s. I'm sure that's just a coincidence...

Jack Gioeli's brother is certainly interesting. I know there was that 2018 case involving V Garafolo carting defrauding Smithtown on Long Island. The company was denied a license to operate in NYC back in 2004. Which again, shows what waste hauling opportunities there have been for the mob over the last couple decades have been more in the outlying areas surrounding NYC.

That said, that's the only recent example I can think of. While there was some involvement (including as you said with Andy Russo), even looking over the all the years, the Colombos didn't seem to have that much stake in the garbage business, relatively speaking. At some point, Long Island seemed to be primarily the territory of the Luccheses. And I seem to remember reading somewhere that about money from the LI rackets going the Gambino's way only because they controlled IBT Local 813.

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:12 pm From what I have heard on this forum and elsewhere, the Colombos are still involved in garbage hauling in Long Island. That racket has existed for the Colombos since the 1960s, when they had near-complete control over certain townships and there were the infamous "garbage wars" between feuding Colombos and Gambinos (this was not an inter-family war, I have seen plenty of cases where Colombo guys were attacking each other over routes). Andrew Russo came to be the head of the Colombo garbage rackets into the 1980s and 1990s. Considering Russo was effectively barred from the garbage hauling industry way back in the '60s and continued to exert control through front men and front companies, it's hard to argue he magically disappeared.

Oh yeah, and Tommy Gioeli's brother Jack is a member of the Syosset Sanitation Board and was the town sanitation commissioner in the late '80s. I'm sure that's just a coincidence...

nizarsoccer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:47 pm

Garbageman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:48 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.

That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.

Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!

Well it shouldn't be surprising. Peter Reuter explained that waste collection inherently produces a cartel structure in the form of a customer allocation agreement or a territorial-based divide. That's a by-product of an immobile customer that has the service provider come to their fixed location. Some industries are just natural monopolies, duopolies or cartel-like and thus need government regulation to prevent price-gouging.

Garbageman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:48 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.

That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.

Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:06 pmYou're exactly right - that's the article I was referring to; the breakdown of the modern biz and the blips about Bernardone and Local 124. Great article. There was another article (jesus...with my memory and how I get things mixed up, it could very well be the same one) that had similar info and an interactive map of a low paid waste hauler. Like a night-in-the-life of one of the guys driving the trucks. Happen to remember that one as well? lol

Awesome work on breaking down that list of companies who will remain. I'm assuming that some of those companies just bought up a bunch of smaller ones semi-recently? Otherwise it's crazy to think that a company with trucks, operations, and long-set routes would just be told they can essentially no longer operate. They sold to other companies who had a better chance at bidding within the new system perhaps?

CornerBoy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:55 amWhat time period does this book cover?

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:49 pm

Shellackhead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:43 pmWho were some guys that got involved & made a lot of money out of this racket?

Jimmy Failla, Joseph Francolino, Alphonse Malangone, Mario Gigante, Angelo Ponte, Sal Avellino, and many others. Like Dr031718 said above, if you read the book Takedown by Rick Cowan, it goes pretty in depth to the whole thing and many of those involved.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:11 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

You're referring to the Pro Publica articles on the NYC garbage industry. They mentioned Bernardone in relation to IUJAT Local 124, one of those independent or rogue locals the mob created or moved in on after being removed from the IBT, etc. That local represented Sanitation Salvage before the company shut down. What limited mob involvement there has been in NYC over the last 20-25 years has been mostly the Genovese family.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

That's it. Plan to cut waste hauling traffic in half by creating 20 zones that split up the 5 boroughs. Each zone can have up to 3 haulers screened and selected by the city. Contracts last for 10 years, if I remember right, with an option to extend. The first screening process has whittled the candidates down to the 50 companies above. And it will be whittled down even more when they pick the ones who actually get the contracts.

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.

Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.

I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:20 pmNice pull...it might be a fun game... pin the carting company on the mobster....

BensonhurstGuy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:42 am Private sanitation here in Brooklyn is not nearly as wide spread as the 80s and 90s. But no way have they been totally pushed out. You people saying it’s all waste management now are saying this from a keyboard in the Midwest. Store fronts businesses pick ups are def still there as well as construction. Go try and open up a store on Flatbush Ave and see the sanit guy who comes in. Some hipster I met who moved here From Alabama was shocked The guys who walked in on park side ave and told me. I said welcome to brooklyn.
I don’t usually post cause you know it alls In Missouri immediately reply Ur 2 cents btw lol