by PolackTony » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:57 pm
Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:04 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:40 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:15 pm
Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:01 pm
Martha was Charles's granddaughter. Not sure of Paul's exact relation -- maybe a nephew. Charles also had a son named Paul who had a son named Paul, Jr. but they weren't the same Paul DiCaro that was involved in the 1970s robbery ring.
Rocco LaMantia getting away with Martha's murder tells me that Specs wasn't a made guy and probably had no pull by 1980. He was under Ralph Pierce on the South Side and was probably put on the shelf or forgotten after Pierce died.
Based on my files/records, Martha Agnes DiCaro was born in Chicago 1959 to Paul Joseph DiCaro and Mavis Henry (a 'Medigan from Iowa). This Paul DiCaro (born 1928) was the son of Charles Benjamin "Specs" DiCaro and Martha Rizzo and as Snakes notes was not the same Paul DiCaro as the one OP was asking about. Specs DiCaro (born 1912) and his brother Joseph "Spider" DiCaro (born 1916) were born in Chicago to Francesco Paolo "Paul" Di Caro and Carolina Spicuzza. Carolina was from Termini Imerese, where she was married to Francesco. Francesco's naturalization documents give his place of birth as "Palermo", but I think it's very likely that he was actually born in Caltanissetta (1880) to Agostino Di Caro and Maria Frangele. When Francesco arrived in the US in 1902 at Boston, he gave his last residence at Termini.
SolarSolano wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:13 pm
Martha was the granddaughter of Charles Specs DiCarlo - she was not a chinatown resident, she lived in Cicero. Her father was Paul DiCaro - son of Specs.
Yup.
Martha was raised in Chinatown, where all these DiCaros lived, and then moved to Cicero though she retained her personal relationship to Rocco LaMantia from the old neighborhood, obviously.
The Paul DiCaro that OP was asking about was the nephew of Specs and Spider, however. He was born 1941 in Chicago to Emanuel DiCaro (younger brother of Specs and Spider) and Jennie Bertucci. If Paul wasn't made, it certainly wasn't from lack of pedigree. Given that both Specs and Spider were still alive when Martha was killed, I wonder how far the DiCaros must've fallen off by this point.
Another layer is that these families were possibly interrelated or connected at some level prior to Rocky and Martha, beyond just the Chinatown/Bridgeport neighborhood and Outfit connections. The LaMantias were also from Termini and there were DiCaros and Lamantias from Palermo province intermarried in Chicago, though I wasn't able to establish a direct link to any of the figures under discussion here.
I'm not sure that these ancestral ties meant much to Outfit guys in the 70s. They had never been sticklers for tradition in structure or in making guys so two guys being from the same part of Sicily or Italy probably didn't mean as much either. Neighborhood ties were probably much more important at this time, not to mention who you knew or reported to. DiCaro had been around for a long time and may have just knew when he had to suck on it and take it.
Sure, but neighborhood ties were at least partly derived -- in origin -- from regional/familial/compaesani ties. Even in my generation, Italian kids that I grew up with were quite cognizant as to whether they were Sicilian, Calabres', Napolitan', Bares', etc. At the least, the LaMantia and DiCaro families would've almost certainly considered themselves compaesani, given that all of these guys grew up around their older relatives who were direct from Sicily and specifically Termini. They were very likely close to each other long before Rocky Lamantia and Martha DiCaro hooked up.
[quote=Snakes post_id=213207 time=1637708653 user_id=66]
[quote=PolackTony post_id=213201 time=1637707229 user_id=6658]
[quote=PolackTony post_id=213195 time=1637705723 user_id=6658]
[quote=Snakes post_id=213191 time=1637704891 user_id=66]
Martha was Charles's granddaughter. Not sure of Paul's exact relation -- maybe a nephew. Charles also had a son named Paul who had a son named Paul, Jr. but they weren't the same Paul DiCaro that was involved in the 1970s robbery ring.
Rocco LaMantia getting away with Martha's murder tells me that Specs wasn't a made guy and probably had no pull by 1980. He was under Ralph Pierce on the South Side and was probably put on the shelf or forgotten after Pierce died.
[/quote]
Based on my files/records, Martha Agnes DiCaro was born in Chicago 1959 to Paul Joseph DiCaro and Mavis Henry (a 'Medigan from Iowa). This Paul DiCaro (born 1928) was the son of Charles Benjamin "Specs" DiCaro and Martha Rizzo and as Snakes notes was not the same Paul DiCaro as the one OP was asking about. Specs DiCaro (born 1912) and his brother Joseph "Spider" DiCaro (born 1916) were born in Chicago to Francesco Paolo "Paul" Di Caro and Carolina Spicuzza. Carolina was from Termini Imerese, where she was married to Francesco. Francesco's naturalization documents give his place of birth as "Palermo", but I think it's very likely that he was actually born in Caltanissetta (1880) to Agostino Di Caro and Maria Frangele. When Francesco arrived in the US in 1902 at Boston, he gave his last residence at Termini.
[quote=SolarSolano post_id=213194 time=1637705610 user_id=6125]
Martha was the granddaughter of Charles Specs DiCarlo - she was not a chinatown resident, she lived in Cicero. Her father was Paul DiCaro - son of Specs.
[/quote]
Yup.
Martha was raised in Chinatown, where all these DiCaros lived, and then moved to Cicero though she retained her personal relationship to Rocco LaMantia from the old neighborhood, obviously.
The Paul DiCaro that OP was asking about was the nephew of Specs and Spider, however. He was born 1941 in Chicago to Emanuel DiCaro (younger brother of Specs and Spider) and Jennie Bertucci. If Paul wasn't made, it certainly wasn't from lack of pedigree. Given that both Specs and Spider were still alive when Martha was killed, I wonder how far the DiCaros must've fallen off by this point.
[/quote]
Another layer is that these families were possibly interrelated or connected at some level prior to Rocky and Martha, beyond just the Chinatown/Bridgeport neighborhood and Outfit connections. The LaMantias were also from Termini and there were DiCaros and Lamantias from Palermo province intermarried in Chicago, though I wasn't able to establish a direct link to any of the figures under discussion here.
[/quote]
I'm not sure that these ancestral ties meant much to Outfit guys in the 70s. They had never been sticklers for tradition in structure or in making guys so two guys being from the same part of Sicily or Italy probably didn't mean as much either. Neighborhood ties were probably much more important at this time, not to mention who you knew or reported to. DiCaro had been around for a long time and may have just knew when he had to suck on it and take it.
[/quote]
Sure, but neighborhood ties were at least partly derived -- in origin -- from regional/familial/compaesani ties. Even in my generation, Italian kids that I grew up with were quite cognizant as to whether they were Sicilian, Calabres', Napolitan', Bares', etc. At the least, the LaMantia and DiCaro families would've almost certainly considered themselves compaesani, given that all of these guys grew up around their older relatives who were direct from Sicily and specifically Termini. They were very likely close to each other long before Rocky Lamantia and Martha DiCaro hooked up.