THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Exactly, we know too little and organizational info on the decina has always been too thin. There were 19 members left when Sciascia was killed and though we have educated guesses we don't have confirmation who most of the members were.

Massino's prison tape w/ Basciano makes it clear Montagna had something of a positive relationship with Montreal before he was deported and tried to reorganize the crew there as they requested that a major contractor be serviced by Montagna instead of someone else. And when Montagna did get deported, he had support from part of the decina, just not the Rizzuto faction. Along with info suggesting that Montagna was himself a separate capodecina trying to install a new captain over the Montreal crew, it wouldn't be surprising if Montagna inducted some members in Canada given several years later the Bonannos made Morena in Canada and Joe Violi also had the option of joining the Bonannos.

Fab mentioned that Domenico Violi offered to introduce Morena to three guys from the old Cotroni faction of the Bonanno Montreal crew and though it isn't stated explicitly, this may have been a formal introduction as amico nos given Morena was a recent inductee. There is another reference from Project Otremens where a high-ranking Bonanno member formally introduced Ontario-based Buffalo members to one of the Caruanas but Joe Todaro discussed it with one of the Luppinos and they were hestitant to recognize the Caruana because they weren't sure where he was made -- either way, it suggests a Bonanno leader in Montreal or NY was in Canada making introductions to Buffalo members.

We know too little on the specifics and there is certainly reason to believe there are still some Bonanno members in Montreal though obviously the situation has been a clusterfuck. Important to remember this was a 20-member crew with a long history and there is no tangible evidence of a formal "Rizzuto Family" even if certain elements of the crew were unhappy and/or went "rogue".

Wiseguy is probably right, but Violi introduced Morena to Tony Mucci if I remember correctly, so even if he is not officially positively identified as a member of the Bonanno Crime Family in Montreal, there is a good chance that he is. Frank Cotroni Jr was also introduced to Morena but same thing

But even if that is the case Mucci and other old timers like Carmine Vannelli or Tony Volpato are most likely inactive and since no one can be categorical about anything regarding Montreal, there are unfortunately no real answers to your questions ...

Old Schooled wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:32 am I am also highly interested in the Bonanno's Montréal Decina, I have been working towards acquiring a source to try to ascertain If the Bonanno Family still recognizes the Montréal Crew, it would be interesting if the Ontario members all recognize the Montréal Crew but NY doesnt recognize the faction anymore and has no connection or communication with them any longer. When Domenico Violi was captured on tape offering to officially introduce Enzo Morena to Antonio Mucci & Francesco Cotroni Jr, I inferred from that that with him being the Official Underboss, he may have been in a position to know if the Bonanno Family still recognized the crew, and if hes offering to introduce them as active current made members, than i would infer from this that NY still recognized the crew. My goal with the source is to finally get some clarification on what the Bonanno Family's current relationship is with the Montréal Crew, specifically if the crew is recognized or shelved by the Bonanno Family, and finally put to rest if the crew broke away or not

There seems to be several events that led to the final dissolution between the Bonanno family and the Montreal crew - the Sciascia murder in 1999, Massino flipping in 2004, the murders of most (if not all) Bonanno members in Montreal after Project Colisee in 2006, Montagna aligning himself with Rizzuto rivals when he was deported to Canada in 2009 (he was rejected by Nick Rizzuto as a "lightweight flunky" who was "not his boss"), etc. Any remaining connections appear to be on an operational level rather than an organizational one. Not a single, remaining, positively identified Bonanno member in Canada can be identified as far as I'm aware.

I am also highly interested in the Bonanno's Montréal Decina, I have been working towards acquiring a source to try to ascertain If the Bonanno Family still recognizes the Montréal Crew, it would be interesting if the Ontario members all recognize the Montréal Crew but NY doesnt recognize the faction anymore and has no connection or communication with them any longer. When Domenico Violi was captured on tape offering to officially introduce Enzo Morena to Antonio Mucci & Francesco Cotroni Jr, I inferred from that that with him being the Official Underboss, he may have been in a position to know if the Bonanno Family still recognized the crew, and if hes offering to introduce them as active current made members, than i would infer from this that NY still recognized the crew. My goal with the source is to finally get some clarification on what the Bonanno Family's current relationship is with the Montréal Crew, specifically if the crew is recognized or shelved by the Bonanno Family, and finally put to rest if the crew broke away or not

Another very likely member of the decina that I forgot to include is Salvatore Sorrentino:

-He was associated with Armand Courville & Vic Cotroni in the company Reggio Food.

-He was instructed by Vic Cotroni to pick up Vincent Asaro in Saratoga to meet his father Joseph then on the run and hidden in Montreal (see page 2 of the thread).

-In 1975 while Vic Cotroni is in prison for contempt before the CECO, Violi is not yet officially acting and asks Sorrentino & Pietro Sciara to go to NY to meet Rastelli to ask him if Violi has the authorization assume the position (the answer will be yes).

We don't know much more but it all sounds very "inducted member" to me. I guess like Nicola Colio (see here viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7429) Sorrentino was a pretty low-key member.

Agreed 100%.

It's like trying to understand 1920s New York City through old newspaper reports that attribute every murder to a dispute over the "Italian lottery". Fortunately we know much more about Cosa Nostra politics and rules today, but all we can use is precedent to understand it until someone comes forward with insight into internal politics.

B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:59 pm He also said the Rizzutos were a mafia clan. Not sure he intended to put it that way, but he did.

--

One interpretation of the earlier quote I mentioned is that he's saying the Montreal Bonanno decina was mostly compaesani from nearby Agrigento villages by that time, but even if many of them had been made with the Bonannos there is no evidence that "15 to 20" (close to the whole decina) were from Agrigento or even Sicilian.

Given he is describing the existence of the mafia in Sicily, he might also be saying that a Sicilian cosca is defined by paesani from the same village, with the cosca size being 15 to 20. This is an accurate description of a Sicilian cosca, as Sicilian organizations are defined by village and membership is often around that size. I'd be surprised if the mafia in Cattolica had many made members.

We also shouldn't take his comment too seriously, as he was trying to hem-and-haw his way through a parole hearing and not cooperating, but it also sounds like he unintentionally dropped some insight. Whether his comment relates to the Montreal Bonanno decina, the Sicilian mafia, or some combination is anyone's guess considering Ragusa's vague comments are the closest we have to a made member in Montreal publicly cooperating.

Coming back to that B., I think he means they were a mafia clan and not a borgata. On a very personal level, I never considered them as a full-fledged Borgata but as a group from the mafia which gradually broke away from the Bonannos. I may be wrong, but I interpret it that way.

But maybe since they've returned to the Bonanno fold right now, or maybe no, we have more questions than answers, it's both exciting and frustrating.

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:39 am We can add Michael Consolo to the list. He was a “bodyguard” to Galante, and was deported in 1955.

Yes, it seems he came with Galante to Montreal. Having said that I always thought that when Galante was in Montreal, the local guys were just an extension of his crew until Cotroni was appointed capo.

Coming back to Consolo, in 1955 the Montreal police raided the house of Frank Petrula, a well-known Montreal mobster at the time, and seized a register containing the addresses and phone numbers of mobsters like Galante, Consolo, Cotroni, Greco, Soccio, Jimmy Orlando, Peter Adamo or Harry Ship as well as politicians and other people of interest. Suffice to say that the underworld did not appreciate and that Frank Petrula subsequently disappeared, no doubt that he rests at the bottom of a lake in Quebec ...

Finally Consolo was deported later in 1955 with Gino Campo (source Pierre de Champlain for this)

About Campo, I wonder if this Campo is not Charles "Charley" Campo or if it is a relative. Campo was a NY Mafioso who got convicted in 1962 for a drug case, along with Matthew Cuomo of the Gambino Crime Family. They got caught with 17 kilos of heroin and Campo took 2 years. Napoleon Colonna, a well-known Corsican of the French Connection and friend of Diodato Mastraccio from Montreal as well as Giovanni Maugeri, member of the Gambino family deported to Milan and also active in Marseille, were also involved. Anyway, Campo was a close guy to the Cotronis, that's why I wonder if it's the same guy or a relative

For those who may be interested here is Charley Campo

We can add Michael Consolo to the list. He was a “bodyguard” to Galante, and was deported in 1955.

motorfab wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:25 am

B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:21 am Emanuele Ragusa's statement before the parole board in 2003 is interesting:

“In Italy, I think, the Mafia is an organization … a good organization,” Ragusa explained. “Anyone can be called a Mafioso. It comes from Sicily. Here, it’s paesani all from the same village, maybe fifteen or twenty people.”

It's totally crazy to declare that before a parole board lol

He also said the Rizzutos were a mafia clan. Not sure he intended to put it that way, but he did.

--

One interpretation of the earlier quote I mentioned is that he's saying the Montreal Bonanno decina was mostly compaesani from nearby Agrigento villages by that time, but even if many of them had been made with the Bonannos there is no evidence that "15 to 20" (close to the whole decina) were from Agrigento or even Sicilian.

Given he is describing the existence of the mafia in Sicily, he might also be saying that a Sicilian cosca is defined by paesani from the same village, with the cosca size being 15 to 20. This is an accurate description of a Sicilian cosca, as Sicilian organizations are defined by village and membership is often around that size. I'd be surprised if the mafia in Cattolica had many made members.

We also shouldn't take his comment too seriously, as he was trying to hem-and-haw his way through a parole hearing and not cooperating, but it also sounds like he unintentionally dropped some insight. Whether his comment relates to the Montreal Bonanno decina, the Sicilian mafia, or some combination is anyone's guess considering Ragusa's vague comments are the closest we have to a made member in Montreal publicly cooperating.

motorfab wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:38 am No no, everybody "works" in peace now, since the murder of the Scoppas in 2019 thing calmed down. Someone post this article the other day, it will probably help you https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/just ... ganise.php

Great article! So now Hells Angels are the most powerful group in the city it seems, even though Italians work in peace nowadays it's still ridiculous that they murdered each other for like 10 years, I`ve never heard of any other mafia conflict that lasted this long, and apparently it cost them their status in the underworld.

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:34 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:25 am

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:08 am Why are there so many groups within the Montreal mafia? Did they all take orders from the Bonannos in the old days? And at the height of Vito`s power was he able to control groups like Cotroni? Why did Montagna have his own faction when he`s from New York? Sorry a lot of dumb questions but Montreal is really a bit confusing.

Not at all. These factions were formed following the incarceration of Vito Rizzuto. Most because they disagreed with the new leadership or because of personal grievances.

Montagna was deported from NY in 2009 and landed in Montreal where he was born. He wanted to put the Montreal mafia under his flag, but the Rizzutos kindly told him to go to hell. He then allied with Raynald Desjardins to take over but they fell out, and Montagna ended up getting killed in 2011, like most of the guys who followed him.

Thanks, so even today the Montreal mafia is badly segmented? It`s crazy that the conflict has lasted for more than 10 years and they are still trying to kill each other. I wonder what kind of impact the war has on business, if none of the groups agree with each other then there`s a lack of cooperation and they will suffer from it financially. At this point you would think some kind of leadership has been formed to keep things going.

No no, everybody "works" in peace now, since the murder of the Scoppas in 2019 thing calmed down. Someone post this article the other day, it will probably help you https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/just ... ganise.php

motorfab wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:25 am

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:08 am Why are there so many groups within the Montreal mafia? Did they all take orders from the Bonannos in the old days? And at the height of Vito`s power was he able to control groups like Cotroni? Why did Montagna have his own faction when he`s from New York? Sorry a lot of dumb questions but Montreal is really a bit confusing.

Not at all. These factions were formed following the incarceration of Vito Rizzuto. Most because they disagreed with the new leadership or because of personal grievances.

Montagna was deported from NY in 2009 and landed in Montreal where he was born. He wanted to put the Montreal mafia under his flag, but the Rizzutos kindly told him to go to hell. He then allied with Raynald Desjardins to take over but they fell out, and Montagna ended up getting killed in 2011, like most of the guys who followed him.

Thanks, so even today the Montreal mafia is badly segmented? It`s crazy that the conflict has lasted for more than 10 years and they are still trying to kill each other. I wonder what kind of impact the war has on business, if none of the groups agree with each other then there`s a lack of cooperation and they will suffer from it financially. At this point you would think some kind of leadership has been formed to keep things going.

B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:21 am Emanuele Ragusa's statement before the parole board in 2003 is interesting:

“In Italy, I think, the Mafia is an organization … a good organization,” Ragusa explained. “Anyone can be called a Mafioso. It comes from Sicily. Here, it’s paesani all from the same village, maybe fifteen or twenty people.”

It's totally crazy to declare that before a parole board lol

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:08 am Why are there so many groups within the Montreal mafia? Did they all take orders from the Bonannos in the old days? And at the height of Vito`s power was he able to control groups like Cotroni? Why did Montagna have his own faction when he`s from New York? Sorry a lot of dumb questions but Montreal is really a bit confusing.

They're not dumb.

These factions were formed following the incarceration of Vito Rizzuto, because they disagreed with the new leadership or because of personal grievances.

Montagna was deported from NY in 2009 and landed in Montreal where he was born. He wanted to put the Montreal mafia under his flag, but the Rizzutos kindly told him to go to hell. He then allied with Raynald Desjardins to take over but they fell out, and Montagna ended up getting killed in 2011, like most of the guys who followed him.

As for the Bonanno authority on Montreal, yes the guys I listed in the first post of the thread were supposed to answer them. Even if as I said they often enjoyed a certain autonomy