by B. » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:50 pm
Here's an aspect of this, probably obvious to everyone, but worth pointing out:
- Most of these guys don't have great knowledge of the organization's history. It's amazing that a 1970s informant was told Tom DiBella's father had been the boss of that family pre-Profaci. It doesn't seem to have been common knowledge and the informant was only told because Tom DiBella had just been elected boss himelf... just a little fact along the lines of, "Hey did you know Tom's Dad was a boss back in the day, too?" Nothing more than that.
- When Dr. Gregory Genovese was forced to testify about his organization crime connections, he didn't know the full name of his father's hometown. He got "Castellammare" right but he added in a second part that was wrong, nothing like "del Golfo". He also thought his mother-in-law's maiden name was Abruzzo and the court had to tell him it was LaBruzzo. None of that is crazy or anything. His father probably referred to his hometown simply as "Castellammare", and why should he have his mother-in-law's maiden name perfectly memorized? But imagine if he was our only source... what he said was not egregiously wrong, but it was wrong enough that we would be looking in a completely different direction if we didn't have other sources on that info.
- Tommaso Buscetta believed the mafia started in the middle ages. As great as his knowledge was for the era in which he lived, there is no evidence the mafia existed that early. Other reputable sources have made similar statements about the mafia's origin. We can't definitively prove them wrong, and maybe it's true from a certain point of view, but there is no evidence the mafia as we know it is that old.
- Someone on here spoke to Sammy Gravano and it was incredible how little he knows even about Gambino family history. John Gotti didn't make him pass a history test to become underboss. Gotti didn't have to pass one to become boss, for that matter.
- Contrast that with DiLeonardo, who can recall figures long before his time that were active in the 1910s-1920s. But he had relatives active back then and he associated with the descendants of early members. There was an unbroken chain of oral history and not every detail is perfect or comprehensive, but for a young guy made in the late 1980s, he knows a lot about the history, especially those connected to his crew.
- The DeCavalcantes are interesting because the Riberesi in the family are mostly interrelated and have been part of the mafia for generations going back to Sicily. There is likely an unbroken chain of oral history among them, like DiLeonardo and his crew, but in their case it seems to be the nucleus of an entire organization.
- With the last point in mind, we have to remember that none of the Riberesi have ever cooperated and we are relying on the following sources:
^ Non-Sicilian Patriarca underboss from Boston.
^ Non-Riberese NYC captain made in the 1980s
^ Non-Riberese Las Vegas/NJ captain made in the 2000s
^ Lucchese underboss made in the 1980s (might not even be referring to DeCavalcante family, re: "La Chiesa")
If Joe Merlo Jr. cooperated, he might not give us a perfect history, but he's Riberese and his family has been in Elizabeth for almost 120 years. He's related in some way to the Majuris, Schifillitis, Riggis, and LaRassos, probably among others. He still might not get the history completely right, but he might have a slightly different or more detailed spin on the "DeCavalcantes are one of the oldest US families" story that shows up in different times and places.
I think Tony was alluding to this, but the Riberesi in Elizabeth/NYC probably trace their mafia heritage directly back to Sicily. If that's true, they might see their existence as one continuous group from Sicily that simply "branched" out from when they formed a family in NJ/NYC/CT. Of course, other groups could say the same thing, but given the DeCavalcantes were less diluted and isolated themselves, they may simply be more aware of it. If they told people they were one of the oldest families, it's not like many people could or would challenge them or press them for specifics. Just an idea to consider.
Felice shared info that when Jake Amari and Pino Schifilliti visited Ribera, they were allowed to attend a formal meeting of the Ribera family. We know members from Ribera also transferred in and out of the DeCavalcantes over the years. While there are lines between these famiies, they blurred them at times. Who knows how this could have colored their perspective when it comes to their own origin.
For all we know there was a Riberesi colony in early New Orleans that was recognized as its own small family and this group later moved to the NJ/NYC area.
Here's an aspect of this, probably obvious to everyone, but worth pointing out:
- Most of these guys don't have great knowledge of the organization's history. It's amazing that a 1970s informant was told Tom DiBella's father had been the boss of that family pre-Profaci. It doesn't seem to have been common knowledge and the informant was only told because Tom DiBella had just been elected boss himelf... just a little fact along the lines of, "Hey did you know Tom's Dad was a boss back in the day, too?" Nothing more than that.
- When Dr. Gregory Genovese was forced to testify about his organization crime connections, he didn't know the full name of his father's hometown. He got "Castellammare" right but he added in a second part that was wrong, nothing like "del Golfo". He also thought his mother-in-law's maiden name was Abruzzo and the court had to tell him it was LaBruzzo. None of that is crazy or anything. His father probably referred to his hometown simply as "Castellammare", and why should he have his mother-in-law's maiden name perfectly memorized? But imagine if he was our only source... what he said was not egregiously wrong, but it was wrong enough that we would be looking in a completely different direction if we didn't have other sources on that info.
- Tommaso Buscetta believed the mafia started in the middle ages. As great as his knowledge was for the era in which he lived, there is no evidence the mafia existed that early. Other reputable sources have made similar statements about the mafia's origin. We can't definitively prove them wrong, and maybe it's true from a certain point of view, but there is no evidence the mafia as we know it is that old.
- Someone on here spoke to Sammy Gravano and it was incredible how little he knows even about Gambino family history. John Gotti didn't make him pass a history test to become underboss. Gotti didn't have to pass one to become boss, for that matter.
- Contrast that with DiLeonardo, who can recall figures long before his time that were active in the 1910s-1920s. But he had relatives active back then and he associated with the descendants of early members. There was an unbroken chain of oral history and not every detail is perfect or comprehensive, but for a young guy made in the late 1980s, he knows a lot about the history, especially those connected to his crew.
- The DeCavalcantes are interesting because the Riberesi in the family are mostly interrelated and have been part of the mafia for generations going back to Sicily. There is likely an unbroken chain of oral history among them, like DiLeonardo and his crew, but in their case it seems to be the nucleus of an entire organization.
- With the last point in mind, we have to remember that none of the Riberesi have ever cooperated and we are relying on the following sources:
^ Non-Sicilian Patriarca underboss from Boston.
^ Non-Riberese NYC captain made in the 1980s
^ Non-Riberese Las Vegas/NJ captain made in the 2000s
^ Lucchese underboss made in the 1980s (might not even be referring to DeCavalcante family, re: "La Chiesa")
If Joe Merlo Jr. cooperated, he might not give us a perfect history, but he's Riberese and his family has been in Elizabeth for almost 120 years. He's related in some way to the Majuris, Schifillitis, Riggis, and LaRassos, probably among others. He still might not get the history completely right, but he might have a slightly different or more detailed spin on the "DeCavalcantes are one of the oldest US families" story that shows up in different times and places.
I think Tony was alluding to this, but the Riberesi in Elizabeth/NYC probably trace their mafia heritage directly back to Sicily. If that's true, they might see their existence as one continuous group from Sicily that simply "branched" out from when they formed a family in NJ/NYC/CT. Of course, other groups could say the same thing, but given the DeCavalcantes were less diluted and isolated themselves, they may simply be more aware of it. If they told people they were one of the oldest families, it's not like many people could or would challenge them or press them for specifics. Just an idea to consider.
Felice shared info that when Jake Amari and Pino Schifilliti visited Ribera, they were allowed to attend a formal meeting of the Ribera family. We know members from Ribera also transferred in and out of the DeCavalcantes over the years. While there are lines between these famiies, they blurred them at times. Who knows how this could have colored their perspective when it comes to their own origin.
For all we know there was a Riberesi colony in early New Orleans that was recognized as its own small family and this group later moved to the NJ/NYC area.