Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

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Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by OmarSantista » Thu Sep 12, 2024 12:44 am

For this timeframe, I'd lean more towards the early 1800's rather than the mid 1820's

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by OmarSantista » Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:13 pm

scagghiuni wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:51 am
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:09 pm I made these, they're by no means complete.

Image

Image
it missed cusimano (piana dei colli), licata (resuttana), siino (malaspina), giammona (uditore)
in 1838 a document talked about criminal sects based in several towns in the province of trapani, i think it was probably the mafia
Really great chart. Genealogist Justin Cascio also made an educated guess on his site; the year it started was 1838 due to Luca Patti leading a cattle rustling ring. In his book he says the first mafia cosche was formed during the years of feudalism's end from 1812-1831 within the areas of Palermo, Agrigento, Caltanissetta & Saraceni territory of the 11th century. Crazy to think this thing is likely around 200 yrs old.

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by scagghiuni » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:58 am

B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:43 pm - With the Fratellanza in Favara, they discovered written rules and protocol and it was identical to what had come out of an investigation into the Passo di Rigano family ten years earlier in the 1870s. They had all of the same rules, protocol, and even the introduction protocol was the same (back then you didn't need a third party, but could mention a "toothache" to another member and through a series of strange questions/answers determine membership). All of it was identical in both Palermo and Agrigento by the early 1880s.
according to the prosecutor morena (john dickie's book) the toothache introduction was by far older and it started in the prison of milazzo long before, but he was suspected of mafia links so i don't know how valid is what he said

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by scagghiuni » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:51 am

Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:09 pm I made these, they're by no means complete.

Image

Image
it missed cusimano (piana dei colli), licata (resuttana), siino (malaspina), giammona (uditore)
in 1838 a document talked about criminal sects based in several towns in the province of trapani, i think it was probably the mafia

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by PolackTony » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:38 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:36 pm
Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:35 am
Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:33 am
Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 am
Wasnt Salvatore Moretti also a cop?
Yes, but was he made?
Havent made any research on that subject although it seems he was direct with Giancana and possibly acted as one time bodyguard...Moretti was killed because he left some crucial evidences while committing a murder
Interesting that all of the cops in the Outfit were direct to Giancana.
While obviously not made, Michael Corbitt also claimed in his book that he became a cop at the behest of Giancana.

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Villain » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:20 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:36 pm
Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:35 am
Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:33 am
Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 am
Wasnt Salvatore Moretti also a cop?
Yes, but was he made?
Havent made any research on that subject although it seems he was direct with Giancana and possibly acted as one time bodyguard...Moretti was killed because he left some crucial evidences while committing a murder
Interesting that all of the cops in the Outfit were direct to Giancana.
Never really thought of that lol btw, i see one of Salvatore's brothers Lawrence "Hornsby" Moretti listed as member of Prio's group

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Antiliar » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:36 pm

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:35 am
Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:33 am
Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 am
Wasnt Salvatore Moretti also a cop?
Yes, but was he made?
Havent made any research on that subject although it seems he was direct with Giancana and possibly acted as one time bodyguard...Moretti was killed because he left some crucial evidences while committing a murder
Interesting that all of the cops in the Outfit were direct to Giancana.

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Villain » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:35 am

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:33 am
Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 am
Wasnt Salvatore Moretti also a cop?
Yes, but was he made?
Havent made any research on that subject although it seems he was direct with Giancana and possibly acted as one time bodyguard...Moretti was killed because he left some crucial evidences while committing a murder

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Antiliar » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:33 am

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 am
Wasnt Salvatore Moretti also a cop?
Yes, but was he made?

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Villain » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 am

Antiliar wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:08 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:35 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 am
B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:55 pm You see virtually everything, with some notable exceptions: law enforcement and journalism.
There have been a few cases of former or current law enforcement officers gaining membership. Sal Vitale, Ron Previte and didn't Chicago have one or two cops as members?


But reporters? No, I can't think of a single one.
There were some cops and ex-cops who were “associates” in Chicago, but I can’t think of a cop who was confirmed to be made (unless I’m spacing on someone at the moment). The closest case would be Richard Scalzitti Cain, who may have been made, though this is still very much in debate.

No reporters, unsurprisingly.
John Matassa Sr was an ex-Chicago PD detective then worked for Sam Giancana. He was identified as made.
Wasnt Salvatore Moretti also a cop?

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by B. » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:24 pm

There have definitely been ex-LE snuck into the mafia, but when I brought it up above, I was thinking active LE officers or officials.

I'm not aware of any confirmed members who were actively working in law enforcement or journalism, while members in virtually every other profession continued to work in those fields before and after attaining membership, particularly in Sicily and the early US.

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Antiliar » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:27 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:11 pm
Thanks. I’d forgotten that Matassa, Sr used to to be a cop. He’s the only one identified as made in Chicago then?
Cain, whom you already mentioned, being the other one. Obviously we can't know for certain that they were made, but they were believed to be. The Outfit did what it wanted. Mike Magnafichi thinks Harry Aleman could have been made. He doesn't know since Aleman is before his time, but he thinks he could have been made, so we have to allow for the possibility.

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by PolackTony » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:11 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:08 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:35 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 am
B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:55 pm You see virtually everything, with some notable exceptions: law enforcement and journalism.
There have been a few cases of former or current law enforcement officers gaining membership. Sal Vitale, Ron Previte and didn't Chicago have one or two cops as members?


But reporters? No, I can't think of a single one.
There were some cops and ex-cops who were “associates” in Chicago, but I can’t think of a cop who was confirmed to be made (unless I’m spacing on someone at the moment). The closest case would be Richard Scalzitti Cain, who may have been made, though this is still very much in debate.

No reporters, unsurprisingly.
John Matassa Sr was an ex-Chicago PD detective then worked for Sam Giancana. He was identified as made.
Thanks. I’d forgotten that Matassa, Sr used to to be a cop. He’s the only one identified as made in Chicago then?

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by Antiliar » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:08 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:35 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 am
B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:55 pm You see virtually everything, with some notable exceptions: law enforcement and journalism.
There have been a few cases of former or current law enforcement officers gaining membership. Sal Vitale, Ron Previte and didn't Chicago have one or two cops as members?


But reporters? No, I can't think of a single one.
There were some cops and ex-cops who were “associates” in Chicago, but I can’t think of a cop who was confirmed to be made (unless I’m spacing on someone at the moment). The closest case would be Richard Scalzitti Cain, who may have been made, though this is still very much in debate.

No reporters, unsurprisingly.
John Matassa Sr was an ex-Chicago PD detective then worked for Sam Giancana. He was identified as made.

Re: Giardinieri and stoppaglieri

by PolackTony » Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:35 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 am
B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:55 pm You see virtually everything, with some notable exceptions: law enforcement and journalism.
There have been a few cases of former or current law enforcement officers gaining membership. Sal Vitale, Ron Previte and didn't Chicago have one or two cops as members?


But reporters? No, I can't think of a single one.
There were some cops and ex-cops who were “associates” in Chicago, but I can’t think of a cop who was confirmed to be made (unless I’m spacing on someone at the moment). The closest case would be Richard Scalzitti Cain, who may have been made, though this is still very much in debate.

No reporters, unsurprisingly.

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