THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by B. » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:27 pm

BeatiPaoli wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:11 pm To B: Also, thank you for that FBI excerpt. Is it possible that when Valenti says he will "go with Joe Bonanno", he means himself getting a personal transfer, as opposed to bringing his regime/fledgling Family with him??? Just wondering about context here. . . . . . . . .

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

He may have been talking about himself only, as he had previously transferred from Pittsburgh, though later we would see Rochester members who had been made with Buffalo identified as Rochester-based Bonanno members, so he may have been referring to the whole regime based on that.

Problems between Magaddino and Rochester went back several years with the Jake Russolesi murder. Russolesi was blamed for the heat stemming from the Agueci murder and Magaddino suspected that Russolesi was going to cooperate with LE. Valenti had ties to the area but was more of a fresh face on the scene which I suspect is why he was promoted to replace Russolesi. I'd be curious how the crew members felt about Russolesi's murder -- he had brothers who were part of the crew but no clue whether his murder would have caused issues with the Rochester membership or not.

Around this same time Magaddino was having problems with his Ontario regime as well. A lot of this seemed to relate to Valachi, the drug case, and the Agueci murder, as well as John Papalia's reckless conduct. Valachi hid out in Rochester prior to his arrest.

by **BeatiPaoli** » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:11 pm

To Pogo: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY!!! As I indicated in prior posts, the Rochester Wiki site kind of laid out the chronology of events after (? Peter) Magaddino's raid where the $ 400,000 was found, and the subsequent meeting between Todaro, Pieri, and Valenti, which I believed took place at the very end or 1968. Other sources refer vaguely to how the Rochester Family existed in the 1960s. I am still trying to nail some hard reference down for this Family's origin date/year.

To B: Also, thank you for that FBI excerpt. Is it possible that when Valenti says he will "go with Joe Bonanno", he means himself getting a personal transfer, as opposed to bringing his regime/fledgling Family with him??? Just wondering about context here. . . . . . . . .

One thing that would be very helpful is if I could determine exactly and precisely where the Rochester Wiki site got their information.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

by B. » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:00 pm

Talk of splitting off was going on as early as 1966^

The Bonanno reference is particularly interesting since many of the prominent Rochester-based members would be ID'd by LE as Bonanno members by the late 1970s and early 1980s. Given they weren't recognized as their own family by the Commission, one possibility is that they were officially Bonanno members (while in reality operating independently) though no Bonanno sources have mentioned this.

Valenti's comment would also imply he was in talks with someone in the Bonanno family. He couldn't arbitrarily decide "I'm going with the Bonannos" without some existing relationship/discussion with the Bonannos.

by **Pogo The Clown** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:47 pm

1968 in is the year I've seen. I don't recall off the top of my head any document that specifically references that year.

Pogo

by **JeremyTheJew** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:08 pm

BeatiPaoli wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:20 am To Everyone: Bump in the hopes of getting Pogo's attention.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

Click pogos link

by **BeatiPaoli** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:20 am

To Everyone: Bump in the hopes of getting Pogo's attention.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

by **BeatiPaoli** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:57 am

To Pogo: Thank you very much for the reference back to the 2019 thread!!! Within that thread, you made the statement: "In 1964 after they whacked Jake Russo. They broke off from Buffalo in 1968 in I'm not mistaken." I entirely agree with that statement. However, I am having a hell of a time finding that year of Rochester's independence from Buffalo, 1968, in a book or FBI document. I can surmise from the Rochester Wiki site the following statement:

"In late 1968, after Stefano Magaddino was raided (I don't recall the place) and $ 400,000 was discovered. This flew in the face of statements he had made to his underlings that Christmas was going to be a little thin. Subsequently, Todaro and Pieri met with Frank Valente in Rochester, all agreed to depose/have deposed Magaddino as boss of the Buffalo Family, Todaro and Pieri stayed with Buffalo and formed 2 competing factions, but Valente announced Rochester's independence, which which the other 2 agreed." However, the Rochester Wiki site gives no hard reference to that supposition.

I have a great deal of confidence in your statements/opinions on this Forum. Do you have any other hard reference(s) material to back up the 1968 date? Once again, I agree with you that by that year, Rochester was its own Family (at least in their own minds, if not that of the Commission, which is another debatable topic I don't want to wade into).

Looking forward to your response.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

by **Pogo The Clown** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:21 pm

Here is a bunch of Rochester stuff I posted a while back.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4968&hilit=Tidbits

by **UpstateDapper** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:21 am

tmarotta wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:49 pm The A team was led by the recognized boss of Rochester Samuel "Reds" Russotti. The B team leader initially before he was murdered was Thomas Didio who was left in control of the Rochester rackets while Russotti, Piccarretto, and Salvatore Gingello were incarcerated for the Massaro murder. The C team emerged later after Didio was killed after having Gingello killed. The Cteam was essentially Gingello's crew making a grab for power. A new book by Thomas Taylor called Enter the C Team actually gives a lot of details. Taylor along with Thomas Torpey and Joey Tiraborelli were the main guys in the C Team. I spoke with Torpey before he died and he said Tiraborelli was pretty much a complete degenerate cokehead and gambler so it was mainly Torpey and Taylor calling the shots. Tiraborelli was the nephew of Russotti so the idea was if they could make a move and take over the rackets, they could run everything with Tiraborelli being the front since he was allegedly a made member. Essentially they felt they got shafted in terms of gambling and labor rackets after Gingello died and with the ongoing conflict they could step in and take over. After the John Fiorino murder it all went down the drain for the C team.

Great info. This is all my understanding as well. To Jeremy’s point, the C-Team wasn’t exactly Irish mob, however the two T’s (Torpey and Taylor) I believe were Irish. They also hired the infamous Irish hitman Joe “Mad Dog” Sullivan to whack Fiorino. That guy killed dozens for the Genovese in NY. Most of the C guys were Italian non-made associates of the Rochester family though.

I actually have that same C-Team book. Haven’t read it yet, but I did finish that same author’s “Rochester Mob Wars” book, which albeit shallow, does give a good overview of the street war. I’m wondering if the Hammer Conspiracies dives any deeper. It was once $300, now it’s dropped to $50.

For my research, searching D&C newspaper archives actually seemed to give the best account of the events of the Rochester family. Only thing is you have to really dig.

This is a nice short video that explains things too:

Rochester Crime Family Documentary A/B Wars

by **TallGuy19** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:56 pm

It's interesting that Magaddino was giving Christmas bonuses to his underlings, it's usually the other way around.

by **tmarotta** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:49 pm

The A team was led by the recognized boss of Rochester Samuel "Reds" Russotti. The B team leader initially before he was murdered was Thomas Didio who was left in control of the Rochester rackets while Russotti, Piccarretto, and Salvatore Gingello were incarcerated for the Massaro murder. The C team emerged later after Didio was killed after having Gingello killed. The Cteam was essentially Gingello's crew making a grab for power. A new book by Thomas Taylor called Enter the C Team actually gives a lot of details. Taylor along with Thomas Torpey and Joey Tiraborelli were the main guys in the C Team. I spoke with Torpey before he died and he said Tiraborelli was pretty much a complete degenerate cokehead and gambler so it was mainly Torpey and Taylor calling the shots. Tiraborelli was the nephew of Russotti so the idea was if they could make a move and take over the rackets, they could run everything with Tiraborelli being the front since he was allegedly a made member. Essentially they felt they got shafted in terms of gambling and labor rackets after Gingello died and with the ongoing conflict they could step in and take over. After the John Fiorino murder it all went down the drain for the C team.

by **JeremyTheJew** » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:01 pm

Who led the A and B teams??? And C was Irish wasn't it??

Anyone have the threads discussing the ABC war

by **UpstateDapper** » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:01 am

tmarotta wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 4:26 pm An interesting thing we learned from Mikey Scars is that exiled boss Frank Valenti may have been active in Arizona under the LA Family.

This is interesting. I haven’t heard much of Valenti’s activities post-exile. I know after he was ousted by the Russotti/Gingello/Piccarreto leadership, he was arrested with Russell Bufalino in an extortion case out of Batavia, NY. After that I have him as going to prison until 1980. While he had some influence on the B-Team insurgents during the war in Rochester, all of the sources I’ve read said he was never directly involved and retired to Arizona (eventually Texas) by the 80s. What was Valenti up to under LA?

On the topic of Rochester origins, does anyone know what was going on in the city pre-Apalachin? There is very little information online. Buffalo was obviously in charge at the time, however It’s said Stanley Valenti ran things (as a capo?), though he was only in his 20s, which makes it seem unlikely he could’ve had a leadership position in LCN. Prior to 1957, the only information is of Pasquale Amico who was connected to Palmieri and died in 1947.

Thanks.

by **BeatiPaoli** » Sat May 30, 2020 6:37 am

To Pogo, Tmarotta, and Furio: Thank you all for the information!!!

Can anyone verify the following statement I made originally:

"The first is late 1968, after Stefano Magaddino was raided (I don't recall the place) and $ 400,000 was discovered. This flew in the face of statements he had made to his underlings that Christmas was going to be a little thin. Subsequently, Todaro and Pieri met with Frank Valente in Rochester, all agreed to depose/have deposed Magaddino as boss of the Buffalo Family, Todaro and Pieri stayed with Buffalo and formed 2 competing factions, but Valente announced Rochester's independence, which which the other 2 agreed."

This meeting between Todaro, Pieri, and Valente was allegedly to have taken place before Christmas 1968.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

by **furiofromnaples** » Fri May 29, 2020 2:48 am

BeatiPaoli wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 pm To Everyone: I am sure this will be a very short thread, because I am confident one of the many learned academics/researchers on this Forum will have an almost precise approximate time period (month/year) the Rochester Family came into existence as an independent Family under Cosa Nostra. The reason I am asking the question is I have read (or remembered to have read) 2 differing time periods:

The first is late 1968, after Stefano Magaddino was raided (I don't recall the place) and $ 400,000 was discovered. This flew in the face of statements he had made to his underlings that Christmas was going to be a little thin. Subsequently, Todaro and Pieri met with Frank Valente in Rochester, all agreed to depose/have deposed Magaddino as boss of the Buffalo Family, Todaro and Pieri stayed with Buffalo and formed 2 competing factions, but Valente announced Rochester's independence, which which the other 2 agreed.

The second is at a meeting (I do not recall the reason for this meeting) in 1970 at a location owned by Valente in Rochester where he declared Rochester's independence from Buffalo as a separate Family under Cosa Nostra.

BTW, I could be wrong about both of the aforementioned events.

Any clarification to the approximate time of Rochester's formation would be much appreciated.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefano_Magaddino

Magaddino's empire began to crumble in 1968, when police found $500,000 stashed away in Magaddino's funeral home and his son's attic. "At that time, Magaddino had been telling his underlings that money was tight, and he could not afford to pay them Christmas bonuses," Hartnett said. "People began to stop trusting him when we found all that money."

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflat ... unt=500000

$500,000 in 1968 is worth $3,683,750.00 today

Its the same with Profaci,this siggies more are rich and more are greedy and miser.

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Rochester Family origin date

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