THE BLACK HAND FORUM

UTC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:37 pm I was right and wrong. The Patch (short for Kerry Patch), was the Irish mob area of St. Louis. https://theirishmob.com/the-kerry-patch-st-louis/

UTC wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:20 pm
Of course, St. Louis had a patch too.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:26 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:52 pm

funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:27 pm It's very gentrified now. A lot of yuppies, bunch of legacy restaurants/businesses etc. Some but not many Italians left. Spina owns a lot of the property but i'm fairly certain he lives in the suburbs now.

I asked someone from Chicago that lives in that area and knows some of the history. He said that several places were referred to at the "Patch." Taylor Street area (Little Italy), Smith Park, and West Town, to name a few.

Just to clarify, Smith Park is part of West Town, its the triangle of the old Italian Grand Ave sub-neighborhood of West Town formed by Grand Ave's turn from and an East-West street to a diagonal street just west of Western Ave. I'm from the area, and heard people use the term "da Patch" to refer to both the blocks surrounding Smith Park as well as the entire Italian Grand Ave corridor (south of Chicago Ave, North of Hubbard St, from around the Kennedy Expy west to Smith Park area). I have additionally heard from older family etc that people also referred to Taylor St as well as old italian neighborhoods like Armour Square/eastern Bridgeport and the part of the city bordering Cicero by Roosevelt Rd (also called "the Island") as the "Patch" back in the days. My understanding is that the Patch was a generic term applied in Chicago to old school Italian inner-city ethnic enclave areas. I think this usage may have been adopted from longer standing references to late 19th century Irish slums in Chicago, referred to as Potato Patches or Cabbage Patches. By the 20th century it would seem that this term came to be applied specifically to Italian communities. The Italians followed in many ways earlier established patterns of ethnic succession forged by the Irish. So maybe when the Irish were the stigmatized immigrants the Patch term was first used, and then later applied exclusively to Italians when they were the new generation of despised immigrants.

Also FWIW I'll second the already posted info on Lombardo's relations to Joey A via Marion. The Nigro, Andriacchi, Spina, Roti, Tassione families are all related by blood and marriage. The Grand Ave Patch was a very insular community, distrustful of outsiders, for decades defended by force from the Puerto Rican and black neighborhoods surrounding it, and cross cut by extensive and tightly woven ties of family, marriage, and ethnic allegiance. Marion's family and extended fam (Andriacchi and Spina) lived already at 2210-2212 W Ohio when she married Lombardo in 1951 and they subsequently moved in together. The building is what we call a sixflat in Chicago, smaller three story apartment building with six units. Soon after Lombardo bought the building, which he eventually transfered to Marion when they were "divorced". So far as I can tell Marion still owns the building and I believe it remains occupied by family. I still have close family and friends in the neighborhood and my "eyes on the street" tell me the building hasn't been rehabbed or occupied by gentrifier types.

And yes there are still quite a few Italians around, although the neighborhood is NOTHING like what it was when I was a kid.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:44 am

Villain wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:43 am

B. wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:12 pm For a non-LA perspective closer geographically to Chicago, Milwaukee member CI Maniaci's accounts of Chicago are also consistent with the Los Angeles member CIs:

- Maniaci describes Frank LaPorte as a "capodecina" of the Chicago family. Former Milwaukee member Frank LaGalbo transferred membership to Chicago, joining the decina of LaPorte.

- Maniaci described the hierarchy of the Chicago outfit as follows circa 1960s:
Boss - Sam Giancana
Underboss - Sam Battaglia
Capodecina:
- Felix Alderisio
- Marshall Caifano
- Frank LaPorte
- Tony Maccalucci (ph)
- Ross Prio (replaced Jim DiGeorge)

In light of the above, he described Jack Cerone as a potential successor to Giancana.

The important part of this hierarchy info is the terminology and structure. As a Milwaukee member with close ties to Illinois, we can see that his understanding of Chicago is consistent with the Los Angeles member CIs' understanding of Chicago.

- Maniaci stated that the Chicago family had become greedy over the years, focusing on earning money for a select group of leaders. However, this does not challenge the structure and fundamental nature of Chicago as a Cosa Nostra family.

- He described Battaglia and Alderisio as the go-betweens for the Chicago and Milwaukee leadership. Based on Bompensiero's info, Alderisio was also the point of contact for the St. Louis leadership and Chicago.

Maccalucci never existed or maybe its sone alias, i dunno

There is an FBI file from 1964 about the Rockford family that clarifies (CI is Maniaci) that the "Tony Mack" he previously identified as Tony "Maccalucci" is Anthony De Monte. Maniaci was shown a picture of Anthony De Monte and confirms that he was Tony Mack, whereas the photo also identified him as Anthony Macaluso, which Maniaci had misremembered as "Maccalucci".

Villain wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:43 am

B. wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:12 pm For a non-LA perspective closer geographically to Chicago, Milwaukee member CI Maniaci's accounts of Chicago are also consistent with the Los Angeles member CIs:

- Maniaci describes Frank LaPorte as a "capodecina" of the Chicago family. Former Milwaukee member Frank LaGalbo transferred membership to Chicago, joining the decina of LaPorte.

- Maniaci described the hierarchy of the Chicago outfit as follows circa 1960s:
Boss - Sam Giancana
Underboss - Sam Battaglia
Capodecina:
- Felix Alderisio
- Marshall Caifano
- Frank LaPorte
- Tony Maccalucci (ph)
- Ross Prio (replaced Jim DiGeorge)

In light of the above, he described Jack Cerone as a potential successor to Giancana.

The important part of this hierarchy info is the terminology and structure. As a Milwaukee member with close ties to Illinois, we can see that his understanding of Chicago is consistent with the Los Angeles member CIs' understanding of Chicago.

- Maniaci stated that the Chicago family had become greedy over the years, focusing on earning money for a select group of leaders. However, this does not challenge the structure and fundamental nature of Chicago as a Cosa Nostra family.

- He described Battaglia and Alderisio as the go-betweens for the Chicago and Milwaukee leadership. Based on Bompensiero's info, Alderisio was also the point of contact for the St. Louis leadership and Chicago.

Maccalucci never existed or maybe its sone alias, i dunno

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:52 pm

funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:27 pm It's very gentrified now. A lot of yuppies, bunch of legacy restaurants/businesses etc. Some but not many Italians left. Spina owns a lot of the property but i'm fairly certain he lives in the suburbs now.

I asked someone from Chicago that lives in that area and knows some of the history. He said that several places were referred to at the "Patch." Taylor Street area (Little Italy), Smith Park, and West Town, to name a few.

motorfab wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 9:52 am

Villain wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 9:47 am Btw is this a French name or Corsican....Weldon Drisselle? His nickname was "The Bear" and during the early 50s was connected to the Outfit in the distribution of narcotics around northwest Indiana

French. The island of Corsica has long belonged to the Italians, so often (but not all the time) Corsicans or people in the South of France have Italian-sounding names.

Villain wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 9:47 am Btw is this a French name or Corsican....Weldon Drisselle? His nickname was "The Bear" and during the early 50s was connected to the Outfit in the distribution of narcotics around northwest Indiana

motorfab wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 9:42 am

Villain wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 5:35 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 4:44 am I totally ignored the French origins of Moran, I must say that I was never very interested either than that to him. Thank you very much Antiliar.

Told ya that there was a French crew

I know that there are guys of French origin in the USA (in Louisianne for the most obvious example) and that necessarily criminals in the population, but I did not suspect that there were criminals important like Moran or Aleteri (I always thought they were Irish or something like that). Thanks for the info guys, if you ever find others you will tell me

Villain wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 5:35 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 4:44 am I totally ignored the French origins of Moran, I must say that I was never very interested either than that to him. Thank you very much Antiliar.

Told ya that there was a French crew

B. wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 2:32 pm

Villain wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 3:13 am I agree. When the boys in NY heard about Giancanas problems, they thought that Ferraro, the underboss, was going to take his place, according to the protocol. The problem was that Ferraro died that same year of cancer and so everything fell on Battaglia, the major West Side capo at the time. Previously or when Giancana became the boss, many records show that some of the old guys in Chicago and around the country thought that Battaglia shouldve received that same position instead of Momo, mainly because Battaglia allegedly held more weight and was made 8 years before Giancana. Battaglia was probably made by Capone in 1931, while Giancana was made right before going to prison or in 1939. Giancanas sponsors were Nitto and Campagna and his "Godfather" was obviously Ricca, while Battaglias was Al himself.

Are there any specific stories about someone's membership seniority being important in Chicago, re: the bolded part? I'd be very interested in that.

In the late 1950s, Angelo Bruno was the Commission's preferred candidate to take over Philadelphia and he did have support within the family, but there was an element of older members who felt he hadn't been a member long enough (Bruno was made at the earliest in 1951, which he was recorded discussing). Ultimately it didn't matter, as Bruno was the boss for twenty years but his lack of seniority still came up.

In other examples though we see few concerns over this type of thing. Joe Bonanno was likely made in the late 1920s and became boss within a few years. Anthony Lima was inducted in Pittsburgh in 1927 and took over as San Fran boss a few years later. Of course Capone was made around 1928 and became boss in 1931. Promotions to captain are a much bigger can of worms, as Valachi said Tony Bender Strollo was promoted to captain very quickly after being made, and he had a huge, influential decina under him. Even looking at Sicily, Nino Giuffre was made in the early 1980s and within a matter of years he was the acting boss and acting capomandamento of Caccamo meeting directly with Provenzano and Riina.

I use the earlier examples rather than someone who became boss "instantly" in the 1990s like Ralph Natale (although that's part of the conversation, too), because it shows that even the older traditional mafia didn't care so much about seniority as much as they did capability once someone was made. A good way to explain it might be, if someone is good enough to be made, they are potentially good enough to hold any position in the family. I'd be very curious what you've found on Chicago, as they seem to have favored capability over formality in many cases (as evidenced by non-Italians having stature/influence), but if Giancana's lack of seniority compared to Battaglia was controversial that would show that at least some members did care about seniority.

And seniority does come up as an issue in various families. People in the Milwaukee family were upset about Frank Balistrieri becoming boss, so John Alioto (former boss) became a capodecina and the older members reported directly to him. We've heard of other misgivings, where members felt a senior member was passed over. But this seems to be the exception, as I think the mafia generally favors capability over seniority. Giancana was obviously very capable, at least at the time he became boss.

motorfab wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 4:44 am I totally ignored the French origins of Moran, I must say that I was never very interested either than that to him. Thank you very much Antiliar.