THE BLACK HAND FORUM

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:29 pm

B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:08 pm - Gambino capodecina Michael Dileonardo testified that in 1989, Joe Watts approached DiLeonardo (who was then a soldier), capodecina Jack D'Amico, and proposed member Dominick Borghese and gave them orders from boss John Gotti to kill associate Fred Weiss. Weiss was to be killed because it was feared he would cooperate against an associate of capodecina Jimmy Failla in the garbage industry.

- In context with the above orders, DiLeonardo described Joe Watts as "part of the inner circle", meaning the Gotti leadership, but refers to him as a "close associate". This is a clear example, documented under oath in court, of associate Joe Watts giving orders to a Gambino capodecina and soldier to kill a family associate involved with another Gambino capodecina.

- DiLeonardo also testified that the Westies were "direct" with John Gotti and Joe Watts, showing that Watts had authority over another significant organized crime group that were technically associates of the Gambino family.

- In another incident after John Gotti was in prison, DiLeonardo testified that Watts had "carte blanche" in the construction industry and Junior Gotti, Jack D'Amico, and DiLeonardo took Watts at his "word" in a construction-related beef for this reason, allowing Watts to win the sitdown. Recall that multiple made members of the Gambino family were murdered in construction beefs during the Gotti regime, so this illustrates Watts' power in a highly competitive mafia-controlled industry.

- In his interview with Scarpo, DiLeonardo said that Joe Watts pushed for DiLeonardo to become inducted as a made member. This shows that as a non-Italian associate, Watts had enough influence to help an Italian associate become a made member of the Gambino family.

- Watts' close relationship to Gotti was not a one-off, either, as it has been reported that Watts had a similarly close relationship to boss Paul Castellano and capodecina/underboss Tommy Bilotti. There is a well-known photograph of Watts, capodecina Frank DeCicco, and boss Paul Castellano eating dinner in Castellano's home.

- It's been reported that following the murder of underboss Tommy Bilotti, Joe Watts inherited Bilotti's lucrative loanshark operation on Staten Island.

- A recorded discussion between Gambino soldier Nick Stefanelli and Philadephia capodecina Joe Licata mentions Joe Watts in context with the Gambino leadership.

Just to follow up...

On the last point, here is the transcript where Watts is brought up. Hard to know exactly what was being said as they were talking over each other, but the discussion was about Gambino family leaders and who will potentially run the family. I don't know what else Stefanelli (Gambino soldier) could have meant when he brought up Watts.

Licata: Who's the boss? Nobody's the boss.
Stefanelli: "Acting. Pete, Pete Gotti's really the boss.
Licata: Yeah, yeah. I know. The brother put him there. But he's... (UI) yeah, keep him... (UI)
Stefanelli: (UI) in the can (UI)
Fazzini: How much time does he got left?
Licata (UI) a Greenhorn from Elizabeth up, out of New York.
Fazzini: How much time does he got left?
Licata: No, he's got a big beef with the triumvirate.
Stefanelli: They don't beat the case, then it's Joe Watts who's got it.
Licata: Joe Watts is in the can, too. Right?

I don't think he meant Watts would be recognized by the membership as the "acting boss" or part of the official administration, but he included Watts in the conversation which is interesting in light of DiLeonardo's testimony. Also interesting that Licata (a capodecina from another family) doesn't stop and say, "What do you mean Joe Watts? He ain't Italian." He just clarifies that Watts is in prison.

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:41 am

bronx wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 8:10 pm ant..yes .but was was "with" danny marino

“With”?

He was on record?

bronx wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 8:10 pm ant..yes .but was was "with" danny marino

bronx wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 5:12 pm lol carnesi spell check

bronx wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 4:09 pm rumor is cranes gave it to marino

dack2001 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 6:45 am A proffer or a "king for a day" session is a meeting where an individual would sit down with federal agents and give them an overview of everything they could bring to the table if they were a federal witness. If someone is in federal detention, the agents will generally put them in a hotel for a day, let them eat like a pig and bring in their family. Hence "king for a day". Local level, they will take you to the local sheriff or pd and interview you right there without any frills or bs. The feds will take long hand notes of the information provided with an express agreement that if they choose not to use the person as a witness, fail to develop a case or verify the information, OR the individual later chooses not to become a witness, the information cannot be used against them. Usually after the proffer session there is a limited amount of time to formalize a cooperation agreement. Make no mistake, the proffer session is designed for potential witnesses. Junior clearly was thinking hard about cooperating and must have changed his mind at the last minute or couldn't get a guarantee he walked like Gravano, you don't take a session like that on a lark. You are admitting to numerous and substantial crimes. Think that didn't play into the fact they tried him four times? Who know what he admitted to.

The fact that select pages of junior's proffer got made public was really, really unusual. Looking at just that issue, that only pages related to Danny Marino and Jimmy Brown were released to Alite or his lawyer, it seems those pages got leaked with the purpose of causing Junior damage, either physically or in the street as to his status or both. Whoever thought it was ok to do that is a real scumbag. On the level with DelVechio. It's not ok to attempt to hurt someone because you think they are getting away with murder but there are some bad dudes wearing badges out there, drunk on the power.

dack2001 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 6:45 am A proffer or a "king for a day" session is a meeting where an individual would sit down with federal agents and give them an overview of everything they could bring to the table if they were a federal witness. If someone is in federal detention, the agents will generally put them in a hotel for a day, let them eat like a pig and bring in their family. Hence "king for a day". Local level, they will take you to the local sheriff or pd and interview you right there without any frills or bs. The feds will take long hand notes of the information provided with an express agreement that if they choose not to use the person as a witness, fail to develop a case or verify the information, OR the individual later chooses not to become a witness, the information cannot be used against them. Usually after the proffer session there is a limited amount of time to formalize a cooperation agreement. Make no mistake, the proffer session is designed for potential witnesses. Junior clearly was thinking hard about cooperating and must have changed his mind at the last minute or couldn't get a guarantee he walked like Gravano, you don't take a session like that on a lark. You are admitting to numerous and substantial crimes. Think that didn't play into the fact they tried him four times? Who know what he admitted to.

The fact that select pages of junior's proffer got made public was really, really unusual. Looking at just that issue, that only pages related to Danny Marino and Jimmy Brown were released to Alite or his lawyer, it seems those pages got leaked with the purpose of causing Junior damage, either physically or in the street as to his status or both. Whoever thought it was ok to do that is a real scumbag. On the level with DelVechio. It's not ok to attempt to hurt someone because you think they are getting away with murder but there are some bad dudes wearing badges out there, drunk on the power.

Pete wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 11:10 pm

NYNighthawk wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 4:15 pm Can anyone obtain that proffer he did under FOIL? If he did do thirty (30) hits would he have to admit to that as part of his proffer?

No, for instance jr did a proffer and only mentioned some very limited things. Proffer is basically telling them what you have to offer. A 302 would be the document after you sign a cooperation agreement that you have to disclose every crime you committed

NYNighthawk wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 4:15 pm Can anyone obtain that proffer he did under FOIL? If he did do thirty (30) hits would he have to admit to that as part of his proffer?