Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

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Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Pogo The Clown » Sun May 10, 2020 10:32 am

Didn't Scarfo say his daughter was too ugly? :lol:


Pogo

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by B. » Sun May 10, 2020 12:39 am

Interesting he says Joe Rugnetta wanted Chucky Merlino to marry his daughter and then wanted to kill him when he refused, not Nicky Scarfo which is the story we typically hear.

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by bronx » Fri May 01, 2020 7:36 pm

how many were butchers, allie shades drove a coca cola truck, wild bill worked flipping hamburgers , many guys were union workers..sal vitali was a C.O. how that happened, porco was a fireman..jimmy brown was a presser in a dress shop..in sicily they all did nominal work ,i.e. farmers ect thats how it started ..working men ..

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Fughedaboutit » Fri May 01, 2020 5:07 pm

dack2001 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 4:20 pm Few points, there are so many differences between families and their histories you end up comparing apples and oranges when you try to compare Detroit and Philly, for example.

Phil Leonetti likes to suggest "this thing" is in the past for him but his hard-on for Joey seems more about jealousy and trying to prove him and his uncle were true LCN compared to the guys nowadays. He may hate his uncle but he talks with pride about the money they were making and the control they had during the 80's. Consider their strict top down, brutal, me-first approach decimated the organization and got more than half of the family locked up for significant time, he's got no place to criticize anybody. He and his uncle outmaneuvered a lot of tough, well connected killers but they ran the thing straight into the ground. Shooting Joe Salerno Sr., killing Salvy, killing Pat Spirito for crying out loud…these guys were nuts. Give Joey credit for picking himself up and sticking it up Scarfo's ass for 30 years while Scarfo rotted in prison, doing everything he could politically and personally to take back the power.

one other thing, Riccobene was a lot more connected than he let onto the FBI. He was connected to guys in New York and up and down the Philly family over multiple generations. While he did give historical information and some tidbits here and there, he clearly is protecting some guys and not giving current information that he had to be privy to. He must have found some benefit to the arrangement...personal or financial.
He misses the life and is upset Joey surpassed him in the mob. He saw him as a kid but he has arguably run one of the most stable philly family in 2 decades. Phil wishes he was Joey, he is just some nobody living in CA

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by dack2001 » Fri May 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Few points, there are so many differences between families and their histories you end up comparing apples and oranges when you try to compare Detroit and Philly, for example.

Phil Leonetti likes to suggest "this thing" is in the past for him but his hard-on for Joey seems more about jealousy and trying to prove him and his uncle were true LCN compared to the guys nowadays. He may hate his uncle but he talks with pride about the money they were making and the control they had during the 80's. Consider their strict top down, brutal, me-first approach decimated the organization and got more than half of the family locked up for significant time, he's got no place to criticize anybody. He and his uncle outmaneuvered a lot of tough, well connected killers but they ran the thing straight into the ground. Shooting Joe Salerno Sr., killing Salvy, killing Pat Spirito for crying out loud…these guys were nuts. Give Joey credit for picking himself up and sticking it up Scarfo's ass for 30 years while Scarfo rotted in prison, doing everything he could politically and personally to take back the power.

one other thing, Riccobene was a lot more connected than he let onto the FBI. He was connected to guys in New York and up and down the Philly family over multiple generations. While he did give historical information and some tidbits here and there, he clearly is protecting some guys and not giving current information that he had to be privy to. He must have found some benefit to the arrangement...personal or financial.

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Cheech » Fri May 01, 2020 12:45 pm

Chris Christie wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:50 am
Merlino's been married one time, stayed in Phila before incarceration (ie his lifestyle before and after boss DIDN'T change), the ceremonies during his tenure appear to be held to higher standards than they even were under Scarfo, limited to very close associates who did work and relatives of members present and former... Leather jackets and Harleys and Xmas dinners aside, Merlino's "show of wealth" wasn't that extreme. Based on his mafia operandi, he could argued to be more traditional than Stanfa was. And 2002 makes its 21 years he's been boss which is just as long as Bruno. The fact that he carried that recognition despite a decade in prison speaks to the respect he commands. If he was as incompetent as the Anastasia books suggest he probably wouldn't hold the title today.

No disrespect to Anastasia, he's one of the best authors out there.
pretty much

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Angelo Santino » Fri May 01, 2020 12:41 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:27 pm
Chris Christie wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:50 am the ceremonies during his tenure appear to be held to higher standards than they even were under Scarfo, limited to very close associates who did work and relatives of members present and former...

Don't forget that he did sell memberships to all those losers in Boston.
That is true but seems to be an anomaly, there could be more to the story. That was Borgesi's venture, could there have been familial relations there? Luisi was the son of a member.
DeCavalcante's are similar in that regard. One of their captains had to be taught bookmaking upon promotion and was amazed at the amount of money. What separates Philly is all the violent outbursts that occurred between 1980 and 1995 otherwise it likely wouldn't garner the attention that it has.
Pogo The Clown wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:27 pm That is interesting. Stanfa knew very little about bookmaking as well and he was the Boss. In the mid-1990s Steve Mazzone ran a sports book that lost money and he was the top Capo and soon to be Consigliere. Then in the late 1990s there was also that sports book that Previte and the guys were partnered with that lost money. It seems that in the post Scarfo era many of these guys were more comfortable just shaking down bookies or ripping them off than they were running their own successful operations.


Pogo
True. Phil Leonetti was even quoted as saying the mob runs on gambling, from his POV from Philly that may have been true. But like you said, their receipts were dismal. You provided some very good examples of their modern day ventures into gambling and how low level or blue color it is. Even the jukeboxes Ligambi and co. had going for them isn't that significant in the annals of mob gambling operations. But the current era is a continuation of a longer Phila. trend.

If we go back to the FBI reports that cover 1963, we can compare and contrast the Zerilli and Bruno organizations since both organizations centered around gambling. One way to measure power is Zerilli shutting down all the gambling houses in Detroit for a temporary set time and then deciding who was going to oversee what. That was the power of Boss in Detroit. They had holdings in Las Vegas, legitimate businesses and lived white collar lives. Compare the power of Boss to Philadelphia and Bruno's can't compare. He may have been able to institute rules but he did not control his members income which included what was shut down and who was where and what percentage each received. And unlike Detroit, Phila's gambling interests were individualized as opposed to a unified front with someone at the top directing how it operated.

Philadelphia has traditionally been a very decentralized organization, where there's an established set of rules that members' follow and that's it, members are basically on their own to make a living. Families like Chicago and Detroit leadership took a more active approach, assigning members to oversee this or that, having payrolls for members in a more business-like fashion. It's not a black and white thing but certain groups operate differently while still maintaining the hierarchy and rules. I think that's why we see Mafia membership and Mafia Organizations being slightly different, as was the case in Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and Pittsburgh. NY and Philadelphia administrations never micromanaged its members operations the way the midwest did so that's a big distinction.

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Pogo The Clown » Fri May 01, 2020 12:27 pm

Chris Christie wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:50 am the ceremonies during his tenure appear to be held to higher standards than they even were under Scarfo, limited to very close associates who did work and relatives of members present and former...

Don't forget that he did sell memberships to all those losers in Boston.

DeCavalcante's are similar in that regard. One of their captains had to be taught bookmaking upon promotion and was amazed at the amount of money. What separates Philly is all the violent outbursts that occurred between 1980 and 1995 otherwise it likely wouldn't garner the attention that it has.

That is interesting. Stanfa knew very little about bookmaking as well and he was the Boss. In the mid-1990s Steve Mazzone ran a sports book that lost money and he was the top Capo and soon to be Consigliere. Then in the late 1990s there was also that sports book that Previte and the guys were partnered with that lost money. It seems that in the post Scarfo era many of these guys were more comfortable just shaking down bookies or ripping them off than they were running their own successful operations.


Pogo

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Angelo Santino » Fri May 01, 2020 12:07 pm

I think you're right that it's bartender. Yes, Stanfa was a brick layer.

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Pogo The Clown » Fri May 01, 2020 12:02 pm

If I'm not mistaken Natale was also a bartender. Wasn't Stanfa a bricklayer?


Pogo

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Angelo Santino » Fri May 01, 2020 11:57 am

bronx wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:03 am he was a jockey though..im would think he is not slighted by someone thinking he was jockey when was a jockey or he never would have been a jockey ? he was always a street guy growing up, no? not taking anything away from merlino he is a tough guy , did a big bid ,goes to trial,he does not need anyone sticking up for his rep.but he was a jockey in his life
Yeah he was a lawn jockey, Ligambi was once a bartender and I think Natale a bartender. It's always been a blue-collar family. You strip these guys of the "mafia" title and they're less enthralling. In New York it's not uncommon for members to be involved in multiple things, a stream of different ventures going on. Phila. guys, past and present, were largely bookmakers and involved with things centered around gambling. They're very local guys, top guys aside, members in South Phila have very few links to other families. Riccobene apparently had no knowledge of Scranton and Caramandi didn't know his way around North Philly.

DeCavalcante's are similar in that regard. One of their captains had to be taught bookmaking upon promotion and was amazed at the amount of money. What separates Philly is all the violent outbursts that occurred between 1980 and 1995 otherwise it likely wouldn't garner the attention that it has.

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Angelo Santino » Fri May 01, 2020 11:50 am

Given that the 90's are now 3 decades ago we can look back and see where history defaulted into fable. Most of the connotations Merlino carries stems from Anastasia's books. They're accurate but Anastasia used narrative to keep the story interesting, one thing he did was contrast Stanfa as an old-world Sicilian pitted against a new generation of Young Turks. This carries its own connotations of eccentric Siggies fervently devoted to mob doctrine clashing with wily, undisciplined misfits. This was taken a step further in Anastasia's covering of "the last days of the mob" and compared the stories of Previte, Merlino and Natale in The Last Gangster. Again, a very good book. But much of the narrative came from Previte who had nothing good to say about anyone, after the book was published Borgesi severed ties with Anastasia, angry over at how things were portrayed. One should always be suspicious when the storyteller (Previte) is always the smartest guy in the room and everyone else is a severe dumbfuck.

Some things to consider regarding preconceived notations-
Stanfa was in the US since the early 1970's, after 20 years of being in that city (omitting jail/lam time) I don't think he was a "greaseball who couldn't find his way down the street." And for all his Mafiosita he made a former cop, a half Italian on his mother's side and the Zips he brought in were not Sicilian expatriates with prior mafia affiliations but mainlanders/nonconnected Itals who lived in Philadelphia and ran into Stanfa. These are not the actions of "old-world don." But in this narrative the enemy was Merlino so it made since to contrast the two.

Merlino's been married one time, stayed in Phila before incarceration (ie his lifestyle before and after boss DIDN'T change), the ceremonies during his tenure appear to be held to higher standards than they even were under Scarfo, limited to very close associates who did work and relatives of members present and former... Leather jackets and Harleys and Xmas dinners aside, Merlino's "show of wealth" wasn't that extreme. Based on his mafia operandi, he could argued to be more traditional than Stanfa was. And 2002 makes its 21 years he's been boss which is just as long as Bruno. The fact that he carried that recognition despite a decade in prison speaks to the respect he commands. If he was as incompetent as the Anastasia books suggest he probably wouldn't hold the title today.

No disrespect to Anastasia, he's one of the best authors out there.

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by bronx » Fri May 01, 2020 11:03 am

he was a jockey though..im would think he is not slighted by someone thinking he was jockey when was a jockey or he never would have been a jockey ? he was always a street guy growing up, no? not taking anything away from merlino he is a tough guy , did a big bid ,goes to trial,he does not need anyone sticking up for his rep.but he was a jockey in his life

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Fughedaboutit » Fri May 01, 2020 9:52 am

BobbyPazzo wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:43 am
Cheech wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:25 am Say what you want about Merlino but the guys he grew up with have not turned and had a ton of opportunity too. says a lot to me.
Exactly. No ones cooperated, tried to kill him, or take his spot in general. He holds a certain balance of fear and respect. The guys around him are killers too so like you said, the loyalty tells you all you need to know. People bash him and call him a jockey but he carries a ton of respect on the street and behind the walls inside and outside of his city where it counts.
Let’s be honest nobody on here calling him a jockey would ever say it to his face lol

Re: Phil Leonetti is on Valuetainment right now

by Fughedaboutit » Fri May 01, 2020 9:51 am

Cheech wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:25 am Say what you want about Merlino but the guys he grew up with have not turned and had a ton of opportunity too. says a lot to me.
Loyal, reminds me of this Tommy Agro quote

“I got guys that’ll eat your fucking eyeballs outta your head. And they are as loyal as a mother fucker and they got balls the size of cows!”

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