THE BLACK HAND FORUM

roydemeo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:00 pm Question for Pogo and the others Mob experts:

Between the Patriarcas and Philly,who is the most powerful today for active made men,controlled territories,rackets etc?

Targenmantarian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:01 pm

roydemeo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:14 pm

Targenmantarian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:08 am

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 pm After he took down Manocchio in ‘11, Jeff Sallett of the FBI said the mob in Rhode Island was nearly non existent. A Rhode Island state police colonel was quoted at the time as saying the Rhode Island mob was in the process of taking their “final breath”.

It seems to me that the number one reason a borgata goes defunct is for one reason or another they just stop making guys. These groups can usually withstand and outlast law enforcement, no matter how many cases are brought. Look at the Bonannos. They had an FBI agent almost get made, and then a boss, underboss, and several captains flip like 10-15 years after that. There should be no Bonannos left after that but when you take a look at Pogo’s numbers, they’ve got a fairly healthy family by 2020 standards. They just had two admin members beat the Feds at trial, and they are up to like 140-150 members. Not bad.

But places like New England, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Buffalo....they just stopped making guys.

Yeah. That's really it. The deaths are self inflicted. You may have a period of bad earning or a loss of prestige. But if you make people then it won't die out and eventually you'll stumble onto some quality members.

The thing that made the mob strong was it's exclusivity. Italians only. Long apprenticeship periods. But that can be carried too far. And when that happens the families die out.

That's why while there's no mob in Pittsburgh there's still crips in Pittsburgh. Are they sophisticated like the mob? No. Do they make mob money (at it's peak)? Largely no with a few exceptions.

But will they ever be shut down by law enforcement? Never.

Crips and Bloods are street gangs with milions of boys to use like cannon fodder while the Mob was an elite and more small families died because the boss prefer to made few members even if have the possibility to made more.

Yeah. Im saying that was dumb. They should have kept them alive.

Doesn't matter how effective you were if you don't exist. America doesn't care once you're past tense.

And crips aren't all created equal. Some of the LA sets are super hard to get into and require a blood in commitment as well. Not comparing the two. Mob is richer. But Crips are still vibrant. Not stagnant numerically.

roydemeo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:14 pm

Targenmantarian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:08 am

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 pm After he took down Manocchio in ‘11, Jeff Sallett of the FBI said the mob in Rhode Island was nearly non existent. A Rhode Island state police colonel was quoted at the time as saying the Rhode Island mob was in the process of taking their “final breath”.

It seems to me that the number one reason a borgata goes defunct is for one reason or another they just stop making guys. These groups can usually withstand and outlast law enforcement, no matter how many cases are brought. Look at the Bonannos. They had an FBI agent almost get made, and then a boss, underboss, and several captains flip like 10-15 years after that. There should be no Bonannos left after that but when you take a look at Pogo’s numbers, they’ve got a fairly healthy family by 2020 standards. They just had two admin members beat the Feds at trial, and they are up to like 140-150 members. Not bad.

But places like New England, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Buffalo....they just stopped making guys.

Yeah. That's really it. The deaths are self inflicted. You may have a period of bad earning or a loss of prestige. But if you make people then it won't die out and eventually you'll stumble onto some quality members.

The thing that made the mob strong was it's exclusivity. Italians only. Long apprenticeship periods. But that can be carried too far. And when that happens the families die out.

That's why while there's no mob in Pittsburgh there's still crips in Pittsburgh. Are they sophisticated like the mob? No. Do they make mob money (at it's peak)? Largely no with a few exceptions.

But will they ever be shut down by law enforcement? Never.

Crips and Bloods are street gangs with milions of boys to use like cannon fodder while the Mob was an elite and more small families died because the boss prefer to made few members even if have the possibility to made more.

Targenmantarian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:08 am

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 pm After he took down Manocchio in ‘11, Jeff Sallett of the FBI said the mob in Rhode Island was nearly non existent. A Rhode Island state police colonel was quoted at the time as saying the Rhode Island mob was in the process of taking their “final breath”.

It seems to me that the number one reason a borgata goes defunct is for one reason or another they just stop making guys. These groups can usually withstand and outlast law enforcement, no matter how many cases are brought. Look at the Bonannos. They had an FBI agent almost get made, and then a boss, underboss, and several captains flip like 10-15 years after that. There should be no Bonannos left after that but when you take a look at Pogo’s numbers, they’ve got a fairly healthy family by 2020 standards. They just had two admin members beat the Feds at trial, and they are up to like 140-150 members. Not bad.

But places like New England, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Buffalo....they just stopped making guys.

Yeah. That's really it. The deaths are self inflicted. You may have a period of bad earning or a loss of prestige. But if you make people then it won't die out and eventually you'll stumble onto some quality members.

The thing that made the mob strong was it's exclusivity. Italians only. Long apprenticeship periods. But that can be carried too far. And when that happens the families die out.

That's why while there's no mob in Pittsburgh there's still crips in Pittsburgh. Are they sophisticated like the mob? No. Do they make mob money (at it's peak)? Largely no with a few exceptions.

But will they ever be shut down by law enforcement? Never.

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 pm After he took down Manocchio in ‘11, Jeff Sallett of the FBI said the mob in Rhode Island was nearly non existent. A Rhode Island state police colonel was quoted at the time as saying the Rhode Island mob was in the process of taking their “final breath”.

It seems to me that the number one reason a borgata goes defunct is for one reason or another they just stop making guys. These groups can usually withstand and outlast law enforcement, no matter how many cases are brought. Look at the Bonannos. They had an FBI agent almost get made, and then a boss, underboss, and several captains flip like 10-15 years after that. There should be no Bonannos left after that but when you take a look at Pogo’s numbers, they’ve got a fairly healthy family by 2020 standards. They just had two admin members beat the Feds at trial, and they are up to like 140-150 members. Not bad.

But places like New England, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Buffalo....they just stopped making guys.

Bklyn21 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:29 pm https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 9749980654

Bklyn21 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:45 pm Mark Rossetti was another big time rat

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:12 pm Back in 2003 LE had Providence down to 12 members. They released a list of names. They were


Luigi "Baby Shacks" Manocchio, 74
Frank "Bobo" Marrapese, 60 (in prison)
Robert "Bobby" Deluca, 58 (in prison)
Eddie Lato, 56 (in prison)
Rudolph Sciarra, 79
Anthony "The Saint" St. Laurent, 62 (in prison)
Patty Galea, 60
Vito Deluca, 59
Alfred "Chippy" Scivola, 62
Matthew Gugliemetti, 55
William "Blackjack" Delsanto, 60
Raymond J. "Junior" Patriarca, 58


In 2011 LE said there were only 8 members residing in Rhode Island. So not counting the guy's in prison. The names released were


Joseph Ruggiero
Raymond J. "Junior" Patriarca
Rudolph "Rudy" Sciarra
Pasquale Galea
Vito DeLuca
William "Blackjack" Delsanto
Joseph Achille
Robert "Bobby" Deluca


In addition they said that Providence was decimated and that of these 8 members only 1 or 2 were still active. Counting the members in prison Providence had 14 made members total in 2011.


So Achille and Ruggiero would have been made in the 2003-2011 period (Achille was indicted as a member in February 2005).


Since 2011 Bobby DeLuca flipped and Achille, Galea, Marrapese, Sciarra, Scivola and St. Laurent have died.


Pogo

stubbs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:06 pm It’s interesting that Philly never seemed to have guys too entrenched in controlling garbage or construction, or am I wrong about that? They always seemed to be doing only blue collar crimes, none of the white collar Genovese stuff... (obviously some but not a huge amount). But tell me if I’m off base and wrong.