Is there any doubt Mags is a beefer?

[Pete]

With outfit associate mario rainone getting 15 years a few months back for being a felon in possession of a gun I think it makes magnafichi having the G choose not to even go forward with their case after finding him with a .40 pistol stink that much more. I know many of us have speculated on the 2 high level informants in the outfit and I can't think of any way for this huge disparity in how these guys were prosecuted for the same crime unless mags was/is beefing. Or there's some other info I'm missing?

[MilwaukeePhil]

Mario Rainone had multiple felonies for violent crimes and was also caught essentially after a burglary with Foliano - I'm sure the judge took that all into account at his sentencing.

Mags on the other hand was never really that much of a violent guy, save for a few drunken brawls and he likely has one felony. I personally don't think he is a beefer because he wouldn't have much to beef on today - and I think he just walked away from that life after those guys all walked away from him.

[Frank]

Read were he was shelved do to drinking problem. Had loose lips while drunk.

[Antiliar]

Mags hasn't been "in the know" about anything recent since the early 2000s, and any crime he could beef about would have already passed the statute of limitations. Do you think any made guy would trust him after everything he's said online in the past several years? He's publicly criticized the DiFronzos, talked about he and Jackie Cerone used to go after other people's wives (including made members), and made it known that Albie Vena is a dangerous guy. Only a person who is done with the Outfit would go on record about those things, and no current member would have anything to do with him except for maybe saying "Hi" and "Bye."

[Frank]

Good point. Did you hear when he said he drove Cerone to meeting with the Genovese. Cerone told Salerno and Gigante that Chicago didn't like the Big Pauley hit. Can't remember if any other families were there, if it was a Commission meeting.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Good point. Did you hear when he said he drove Cerone to meeting with the Genovese. Cerone told Salerno and Gigante that Chicago didn't like the Big Pauley hit. Can't remember if any other families were there, if it was a Commission meeting.

Wow. Have not heard of this. Where did you hear/read this please?

[Antiliar]

Good point. Did you hear when he said he drove Cerone to meeting with the Genovese. Cerone told Salerno and Gigante that Chicago didn't like the Big Pauley hit. Can't remember if any other families were there, if it was a Commission meeting.

Was probably not any kind of Commission meeting. Chicago has had a close relationship with the Genovese Family since Capone and Masseria in the 1920s. Actually before that, since the Chicago Mafia was close to Morello in the 1900s. Tony Ricci (AKA Tony Gobels) was often going back and forth between Chicago and New York, maybe as early as the late 1920s to as late as the early 1970s.

[Villain]

Good point. Did you hear when he said he drove Cerone to meeting with the Genovese. Cerone told Salerno and Gigante that Chicago didn't like the Big Pauley hit. Can't remember if any other families were there, if it was a Commission meeting.

Was probably not any kind of Commission meeting. Chicago has had a close relationship with the Genovese Family since Capone and Masseria in the 1920s. Actually before that, since the Chicago Mafia was close to Morello in the 1900s.

A little bit off topic, was Dispenza the first connection or was there someone before him?

And another question, do you think that at first the Chicago group was an extended arm of the Morello clan and do you think that later Masseria tried to achieve or preserve the same relationship with the making of Capone, even though things ended up differently with Luciano?

[Antiliar]

Mariano Zagone was the Chicago boss before Dispenza. Don't know who came before Zagone or if he was the first (but I doubt that).

No, I think Chicago started up independently, maybe as early as the 1880s.

[Frank]

Didn't Masseria make Capone and about 15 of his men in 1930. Does anyone know who the others were. I assume Chicago was still independent. Or were they a branch of New York. If so I assume it was only temporary. How did that play out??

[Villain]

Didn't Masseria make Capone and about 15 of his men in 1930. Does anyone know who the others were. I assume Chicago was still independent. Or were they a branch of New York. If so I assume it was only temporary. How did that play out??

I believe the number was 10 which included the bosses of Near South Side and Loop (D'Andrea), Chinatown and South Side (also under D'Andrea), Chicago Heights (Roberto), Cicero (R Capone), Taylor St (Campagna), Melrose Park (DeGrazia or possibly Rio, choose one), Grand Av (Maritote), Near North Side (Nitto), Rogers Park (DeGeorge), Lake View (C Fischetti with Rocco being the second made guy)...so i believe thats 10 and it is also possible that Ricca and D'Andrea were in the top administration right under Al ...and by 1933 i belive the number of guys made by the Capone faction was much higher...

[Frank]

Thanks, so what was the ramification of these guys being made by a N.Y. boss, besides backing Masseria up in the war against Maranzano. Once Masseria was killed I assume these made guys were Chicago only.

[Antiliar]

Capone was made by Joe Masseria around 1928 before Tony Lombardo was killed. Capone operated an independent outfit (which began under Jim Colosimo, then John Torrio) that paid up to the Chicago Mafia. The Mafia went from Mariano Zagone (killed 1909) to Rosario Dispenza (k 1914) to Anthony D'Andrea (k 1921), Mike Merlo (d 1924), then a brief period were several tried to claim the title (Angelo Genna, Samuzzo Ammatuna), then Lombardo. After Lombardo was killed in 1928, all the subsequent Chicago Mafia bosses were puppets of Capone and probably paid up to him. After Salvatore Maranzano recognized Capone as the head man in Chicago, that effectively merged the two organizations under him.

Nick Gentile is our source that Capone made ten soldiers, but doesn't say who they were, so it's anyone's guess. Any of the following are likely candidates: Frank Rio, Frank Nitto, Ralph Capone, Phil D'Andrea, Frank Maritote, Bruno Roti, Jack McGurn, Louis Campagna, Paul Ricca, Dominic Roberto, Jimmy Belcastro, Lawrence Mangano, Tony Volpe, etc. It's possible that some like Phil D'Andrea and Lawrence Mangano were already made members of the Mafia who switched over to Capone, so that would eliminate the need to make them.

[Pogo The Clown]

Great stuff on the original Chicago family. Do we know how many members this family had? Is there a list of the known or suspected members of this family before they were absorbed by the Outfit. Thanks.


Pogo

[Ivan]

Capone was made by Joe Masseria around 1928 before Tony Lombardo was killed. Capone operated an independent outfit (which began under Jim Colosimo, then John Torrio) that paid up to the Chicago Mafia. The Mafia went from Mariano Zagone (killed 1909) to Rosario Dispenza (k 1914) to Anthony D'Andrea (k 1921), Mike Merlo (d 1924), then a brief period were several tried to claim the title (Angelo Genna, Samuzzo Ammatuna), then Lombardo. After Lombardo was killed in 1928, all the subsequent Chicago Mafia bosses were puppets of Capone and probably paid up to him. After Salvatore Maranzano recognized Capone as the head man in Chicago, that effectively merged the two organizations under him.

Who were the bosses after Lombardo? Lolordo, Aiello, etc?

I was under the impression Aiello was the boss for a while but it's hard to think of him as a puppet of Capone.