Son's of bosses

[rayray]

The Dave Fisher and the Sonny Franzese threads got me thinking of how successful the sons of bosses were and if they "really" deserved their position/promotion within their respective family's?

Like John Gotti Jr.? What did he do to be promoted? Or Raymond Patriarca Jr? Sal Bonanno? Nicky Scarfo Jr. pulled down some bank but seemed like he never was fully accepted, more protected because of Sr.

I'd classify Phil Testa's son Sal Testa as successful gangster and moneymaker

Then

Nick and Vito Rizzuto, the Zerilli's/Tocco's of Detroit or the Todaro's of Buffalo, the Colombo Persico's and Florida's Trafficante's all seemed to have a stronghold on their respective family's, so, obviously the sons commanded and earned the respect.

Then Carlo Gambino's sons...sure they were successful but were they deserving of their position? They always seemed to be different, more business-like were cousin Paul Castellano while not a son was more gangster/killer then businessman.

I guess the John Gotti Jr. thing really got me thinking comparing him to some of these other sons...like he just didn't belong being a capo.

[B.]

The ones who interest me are the guys whose fathers were bosses long before the sons were of any significance (though in some cases the sons may have been made while the father was still boss i.e. DiBella).

Jerry D'Aquila (Salvatore D'Aquila)
Thomas DiBella (Salvatore DiBella)
Giacomo Reina (Gaetano Reina)

I have to wonder how aware their peers were of who these guys' fathers were and whether it factored into the way they were seen/treated.

[Angelo Santino]

The ones who interest me are the guys whose fathers were bosses long before the sons were of any significance (though in some cases the sons may have been made while the father was still boss i.e. DiBella).

Jerry D'Aquila (Salvatore D'Aquila)
Thomas DiBella (Salvatore DiBella)
Giacomo Reina (Gaetano Reina)

I have to wonder how aware their peers were of who these guys' fathers were and whether it factored into the way they were seen/treated.

Calogero Morello, son of Giuseppe, allegedly a member despite being killed at age 17.

[B.]

Sal Profaci was made very young, then after his father died acted as an aide to his uncle Magliocco during his attempt to be boss. He eventually became a captain on his own years later and was one of the more nationally connected members operating in NY/NJ for decades (Detroit and Philly in particular). Needs to write a book before he dies but that won't happen.

[Snakes]

A lot of Outfit guys were set up with legit jobs such as union representatives or in the legal field. A few followed their fathers' footsteps but they were the exception to the rule.

[rayray]

Sal Profaci was made very young, then after his father died acted as an aide to his uncle Magliocco during his attempt to be boss. He eventually became a captain on his own years later and was one of the more nationally connected members operating in NY/NJ for decades (Detroit and Philly in particular). Needs to write a book before he dies but that won't happen.

You never hear much about Sal Profaci...is he retired?

[Pete]

A lot of Outfit guys were set up with legit jobs such as union representatives or in the legal field. A few followed their fathers' footsteps but they were the exception to the rule.

There are only a few I can think of where the sons actually were members. Carusos and magnafichi. Also tony zizzo and nick ferriola. Supposedly jimmy marcellos son is at least an associate but that's certainly the exception to the rule. Also Jimmy's dad was an associate at least if not a member. Sure I'm missing some people

[Angelo Santino]

The ones who interest me are the guys whose fathers were bosses long before the sons were of any significance (though in some cases the sons may have been made while the father was still boss i.e. DiBella).

Jerry D'Aquila (Salvatore D'Aquila)
Thomas DiBella (Salvatore DiBella)
Giacomo Reina (Gaetano Reina)

I have to wonder how aware their peers were of who these guys' fathers were and whether it factored into the way they were seen/treated.

I've wondered this and concluded very little. We may look at those guys with significance but in the end, I'm sure they are looked at by their peers no differently than the Basciano children today: there's a certain cred on account of your father being a member and former boss, but in the end you're judged by what you bring to the table.

[rayray]

It seems the smaller family's like Detroit, the Florida Trafficante's, then the Rizzuto's in Montreal had the most successful sons as far as moving to the top of the family. Even if the Rizzuto's were an extension of the Bonanno's, Nick and Vito were more boss like then capo like, imho.

Maybe it had to do with money, maybe if the father was good with money and able to pass/share that money/rackets to the son, it enabled the son to be successful and respected within the organization.

Sure, Gotti Jr. became boss but outside of the Gotti circle I'm having a tough time thinking that he commanded the respect the boss should have...

[Pogo The Clown]

You never hear much about Sal Profaci...is he retired?

Most likely. He was shelved after the Colombo War and is in his 80s now.


Pogo

[JeremyTheJew]

It seems the smaller family's like Detroit, the Florida Trafficante's, then the Rizzuto's in Montreal had the most successful sons as far as moving to the top of the family. Even if the Rizzuto's were an extension of the Bonanno's, Nick and Vito were more boss like then capo like, imho.

Maybe it had to do with money, maybe if the father was good with money and able to pass/share that money/rackets to the son, it enabled the son to be successful and respected within the organization.

Sure, Gotti Jr. became boss but outside of the Gotti circle I'm having a tough time thinking that he commanded the respect the boss should have...

Yes i agree
In the smaller families they are able to controll a lot more influence/ respect bc ppl knew they better respect or at least pretend to respect the son, bc the father was there watching.

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[OlBlueEyesClub]

According to Dave C, one of the main qualifications for a guy to be made was being a relative. In the early 19th century, the relationship factor really mattered a lot toward being made. Right next to the vouching system, being from an Sicilian enclave, and of course making your bones. I'm sure in some cases whom their fathers were may have mattered a a bit toward the sons of early bosses eventually being made as well. But thats just me going by a book again, that very well may not have been the case for the sons.

[B.]

Something strange is that no Philly bosses from 1920 - 1980 ever made their sons if they had them. And no other known administration members from that period except Phil Testa ended up making their sons, either. We don't know who, if anyone, was the consigliere before Oliveto, though.

I'm not sure if this was by design or what.

[Teflon john]

I think alot of it has to do with how well they were liked,respected or feared. Scarfo was feared but that was probably it,no one probably liked him so they didnt like his son. Same goes for Gotti and his son. Gambino probably didnt want his sons in it,they profitted from the life but were not gangsters,and same with Bonannos son. Sal Testa was a gangster and it didnt end well for him unfortunately.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

I remember reading somewhere that Scarfo Jr. used to hang around the same guys that run Philly LCN today, and that during Scarfo's reign, Scarfo Jr & Joey Merlino were close friends. I don't know what to say to that, but it's not all that hard to believe. I mean he was associated at one point to Chaz Iannece, as Iannece was the one who walked in and supposedly hugged or kissed Scarfo Jr. in Dante & Luigi's to point him out for the shooters supposedly. But that makes little sense because if the shooters were Merlino & his accomplice being Mikey Chang, then they'd both already know who Scarfo Jr was if they were all associated with one another at some point. So either the story is false, or Iannece's actions and reasons for being in Dante & Luigi's that night were inaccurately reported. I don't know which to believe, but Scarfo Jr was also indicted for assault with a baseball bat along with Tommy "Horsehead" Scafidi, another guy who grew up around Merlino & that whole Passyunk avenue "young turk" crew.