O'Banion ratting out Torrio

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Dwalin2014
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O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by Dwalin2014 »

According to most sources, before being murdered, Dean O'Banion tipped off the police about the Sieben Brewery and the gangster meeting there, arranging the arrest of Torrio and his own; however, since O'Banion was a first-time prohibition offender, he knew he wouldn't go to jail (therefore the arrest wouldn't result in any serious consequence) while for Torrio it was a second offence, which meant jail time. O'Banion was labeled a rat therefore and was killed on Torrio's orders.
However, in 2 books I read the authors disagree with this theory:

Quote from Bootleggers and Beer Barons of the Prohibition Era by Anne Fundenburg
According to mob lore, O’Banion had set up the raid or at least knew about it in advance. His motive was to send Torrio to prison. O’Banion had no prior Volstead violations so he expected to pay only a small fine when his case went to court. Torrio, however, had been found guilty of liquor offenses in an earlier case. With those violations on his rap sheet, he would receive a substantial prison term at trial.
Although gangland gossips repeated this tale as gospel truth, they overlooked salient facts. Not only had O’Banion been arrested for hijacking liquor a few months earlier, he had even more recently been indicted on Volstead charges and was awaiting trial. When the police searched O’Banion during the raid, they discovered that he was carrying his “little black book” which listed the people on his payroll. The list included police officers, politicos, and federal Prohibition agents. If O’Banion had expected the raid, surely he would’ve left this sensational evidence at home. The bail situation added another question mark. After the liquor lords were arrested, Torrio paid $ 7,500 cash bail from a wad of whip-out. O’Banion didn’t have cash and had to wait for a bail bondsman to spring him. If O’Banion expected the raid, why didn’t he have the money to pay his bail?
Quote from 30 Illegal Years To The Strip by Bill Friedman
The facts are that the two gang leaders were partners in the large Sieben Brewery where they produced the beer that Torrio distributed in south Chicago and O’Banion disseminated in the north-east. Six months before O’Banion’s murder, 30 policemen burst into Sieben and arrested 29 underlings along with Torrio and O’Banion, who were working in unison side by side. The police closed the Brewery, but the two partners soon reopened the facility as the Milk Maid Brewery. Thus, it is nonsense that O’Banion ever sold his share of Sieben to Torrio and then created the raid to hurt his former partner because the Sieben partnership continued on as Milk Maid.
As a result of the raid, Torrio later did go to jail, but if O’Banion had been alive he would have gained nothing because the murderous Capone would have stepped forward to represent Torrio’s interest. Besides, Torrio went to jail because of a plan by reform Mayor Dever and his honest Police Chief Collins. These two officials were after all the gangsters including O’Banion and were never criminal allies of any of them.
In realty, Torrio and O’Banion had never threatened each other and were on excellent terms despite the inevitable disagreements that occur between two aggressive competitors. Torrio and his gang’s leaders all bought very expensive floral displays from O’Banion for high-profile gangland funerals, and key O’Banion gang members hung out at Torrio’s Four Deuces speakeasy and casino deep in his territory. O’Banionites came in unarmed and drank heavily with their backs turned to Torrio’s shooters. Clearly, neither feared or distrusted the other.
and the author proposes another explanation:
O’Banion’s gangland murder actually resulted from an argument over morals. While his killing set off a long-term conflict between the two gangs that became known as the “beer war,” it started as a disagreement over the morality of prostitution. Torrio’s primary business was pimping, so he had proposed placing brothels in O’Banion’s North Side territory and giving him a cut of the profits. O’Banion always bragged that what separated him from Torrio was his vocal denunciation of any man taking money from a woman. Thus, O’Banion was deeply offended by the proposal. Torrio tried to address this objection with his next offer to operate North Side brothels by not having O’Banion profit from them. Instead he offered to trade O’Banion the right to sell beer in some of his territories, but O’Banion would not allow any one to exploit women in his terrain. His strong idealistic conviction cost him his life. The resulting gang war may have started over brothel territory and it was popularly believed to have been fought over beer terrain, but it was actually a long-term ongoing battle for leadership of the Unione Siciliana Chicago branch.
In your opinion, was O'Banion really responsible for Torrio's arrest or are the alternative theories more plausible?
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DPG
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Re: O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by DPG »

The whole Unione Siciliana "branch" thing throws me off the last author. Antiliar or Gov one I believe proved that Chicago was the only place it existed.

Now the first author makes a point.

This can be said again and again: Majority of the "facts" associated with the mafia are based off of unsourced material such as newspapers and early crime books, and in turn these materials have been used as the sources for new books and documentaries. So by now the same bogus "facts" have been repeated for so long they are excepted.

I'm right along side you with a mind towards the past, but I've finally came to the realization that the lump sum of oc books are basically for entertainment and not a place to discover new facts.

All that said the first author makes a good case.
I get it....first rule of fight club.
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Antiliar
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Re: O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by Antiliar »

DPG wrote:The whole Unione Siciliana "branch" thing throws me off the last author. Antiliar or Gov one I believe proved that Chicago was the only place it existed.

Now the first author makes a point.

This can be said again and again: Majority of the "facts" associated with the mafia are based off of unsourced material such as newspapers and early crime books, and in turn these materials have been used as the sources for new books and documentaries. So by now the same bogus "facts" have been repeated for so long they are excepted.

I'm right along side you with a mind towards the past, but I've finally came to the realization that the lump sum of oc books are basically for entertainment and not a place to discover new facts.

All that said the first author makes a good case.
The Unione Siciliana was in four states: Illinois, Michigan, Indiana and Wisconsin, but had the most members in Illinois.

As for who killed O'Banion, the two major suspects are that Torrio gave the order or the Genna brothers did. The shooters were three people, with the thin taller man in the middle shaking his hand. Frankie Yale's name is often thrown around as the hand-shaker, but he wasn't tall or thin. If Torrio had him killed he had plenty of his own people to choose from. Scalise and Anselmi are also suggested as the shooters, and both of them, I believe, were taller than Yale. We don't know who did it or who gave the order and most books confuse the facts.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by Pogo The Clown »

The Sicilian Hand Shake :mrgreen:


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DPG
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Re: O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by DPG »

Thank you for clearing that up, I just remember you saying it never was an organization in New York(And that Yale was not involved in it?).

Cant remember which book it was but the author claimed Capone had never met Big Jim Colosimo and that he was most likely his killer. It was either Get Capone or The First Vice Lord: Big Jim Colosemo and the Ladies of the Levee , Im leaning towards the latter.

Yale gets thrown around a lot, based off of a little.
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Antiliar
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Re: O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by Antiliar »

Capone could have killed Colosimo. There's nothing that rules him out. Would be nice to have his 1920 census record, but it's either missing or he avoided the census taker. Hopefully the new book written with the support of his grandchildren and other relatives helps to sort some things out, but the book won't be released until October.

http://www.amazon.com/Al-Capone-Life-Le ... =al+capone
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DPG
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Re: O'Banion ratting out Torrio

Post by DPG »

Looks interesting, but considering how little his wife and son knew about him I have to wonder what his grandchildren know. I hope it bring out new info.
I get it....first rule of fight club.
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