How Many Mafia Families Were There? 20,24,26???

[Grouchy Sinatra]

The Outfit, per se, didn't have interests but individual members like Anthony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, Joseph Aiuppa, Jackie Cerone, Angelo LaPietra, etc.

What is this supposed to mean?

[maxiestern11]

For the period of 1960-1965 - figures released by FBI to the media for the Vegas skim were:

- Genovese: $50,000/month
- Chicago: $65,000/month
- Cleveland: $52,000/month
- Lansky and partners : $80,000/month

How about 1965-1985?

Obviously figures are hard to come by. But keep in mind, Howard Hughes didn't purchase the Sands, Desert Inn, and Frontier until 1967. And the solely Midwest skim of the 4 Argent casinos (Stardust, Fremont, Hacienda, Marina) didnt start until 1974.

From the mid-1940s through the 1960s, Genovese members such as Frank Costello, Vincent Alo, Gerry Catena, Anthony Salerno, and others had interests in at least 8 Vegas casinos. They also had pieces of 3 casinos in Havana before the Castro revolution.

As Capeci pointed out, it's important to remember that the families didn't collectively get together and decide to buy interests in a casino. Individual mobsters did. Others didn't.

The Outfit, per se, didn't have interests but individual members like Anthony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, Joseph Aiuppa, Jackie Cerone, Angelo LaPietra, etc.

Same for Gambino captain Frank Piccolo, Detroit members Anthony Zerilli and Michael Polizzi, Cleveland bossrs John Scalish and Angelo Lonardo, St Louis boss Anthony Giordano, New England boss Raymond Patriarca, New Orleans boss Carlos Marcello, Kansas City boss Nick Civella, Milwaukee boss Frank Balistrieri, the Mannarinos in Pittsburgh, and so on.

Most powerful family since the Commission was formed.

1931-1957: Luciano (Genovese)

1957-1983: Chicago Outfit/Gambino

1983-1992: Gambino

1992-Present: Genovese.

That's some great revisionist history.

You're entire viewpoint above seems to be based on Costello retiring, Gambino being "the man," and an incorrect understanding of Vegas.

Correct: individual mob guys would invest money and grab points: Jerry Catena was one of the biggest with pts., Gyp Decarlo, Bioardo I believe if memory serves me, Costello, Lansky and all the Jewish racket guys (who by the way we’re mostly represented by NYC), Al Polizzi from Cleveland etc etc ...... Chicago, although a solid crew for decades, was a pimple on an elephants ass compared to some other families sizes, and although admittedly they really had a tremendous “lock” on Chicago and some of the adjoining states, a very compete dominance in both politics, business and the street, were still not in league with a Genovese Family.... (IMO).... Chicago was very respected, but remember, even some of their top guys originally came out of NYC, NOT the other way around!!
-
Nobody started in Chicago and “migrated” to NY!
-
NYC and only NYC...... Is the “base” of 99.99% of the rest of the country!.....(CHICAGO INCLUDED)!!
-
remember Capone was a Masseria “Capo”!
Masseria was NOT a Capone “Capo”!....... CASE CLOSED!

-
Even the Vegas skim figures listed above add Up to:
Genovese/Jewish - interests: $130,000. Mth
Chicago : $65,000. Mth ...... (Jewish interest and Lansky collectively WERE under Genovese dominance - so I’d argue that’s one interest) combined!
-
Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel, (and every Jewish racketeer thereafter).... pretty much fell under Lansky’s wing! .....ALL NY based and/or affiliated -
-
....... YOU WANT BETTER THAN “Jimmy Blue Eyes” Alo??? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING! ...... Alo WAS “Mr. Las Vegas/Bahamas Gambling”!...... a GENOVESE Guy!

[Wiseguy]

The Outfit, per se, didn't have interests but individual members like Anthony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, Joseph Aiuppa, Jackie Cerone, Angelo LaPietra, etc.

What is this supposed to mean?

Once again, as Capeci explained, each of the families didn't get together (like a board of directors) and make a collective decision to get involved in a casino. Rather, individual mobsters chose to invest or not as the opportunity arose. Joe Prafaci or Jack Dragna, for example, never had any casino investments.

[maxiestern11]

And this is not to knock Chicago, because I think they had a great crew, strong and smart...Capone, Nitti, Joe Batters was a top top guy, Ricca, etc..... but what’s right is right! ..... historally NOBODY, ANYWHERE, overshadows NYC and it’s members..... Profaci, Lucchese, Gambino, Luciano-Costello-Genovese, Maranzano, Bonanno!...... and the literally hundreds and hundreds of “Top” “Top” level ..... “Capable” guys out of the NY-NJ area!

NUMERO UNO! ..... always!

[Grouchy Sinatra]

historally NOBODY, ANYWHERE, overshadows NYC and it’s members

Chicago did in the 60s and 70s, except maybe the Gambinos.

Chicago's scope of corruption in that time was virtually unmatched.

[maxiestern11]

historally NOBODY, ANYWHERE, overshadows NYC and it’s members

Chicago did in the 60s and 70s, except maybe the Gambinos.

Chicago's scope of corruption in that time was virtually unmatched.

Agreed.... but only in “Chicago”... which is a small city in comparison to NYC, don’t you understand???
-
And OVERALL, Chicago was maybe 100 made guys!... MAYBE!
-
NYC - collectively?..... maybe 1000-1300!..... individually, 350, 300, 200, 150, 135......plus!!...... just NO Comparison!..... but remember, if you just wanna be right, then there’s no convincing you!
-
I imagine you must come out of that area because of your “loyalty” to Chicago. And that’s commendable, but don’t let your “wanting” it to be so, that you throw aside all logic and sensibility!
-
And counting “associates”? Lol...... thousands upon thousands.... of Italian Associates (that’s NOT counting other ethnicities).... which are literally uncountable!

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Agreed.... but only in “Chicago”...

Not true. Nationwide. Vegas. Hollywood. Miami. Washington DC. The Teamsters, who had leverage over the country then. Chicago gained even more power post-Hoffa, considering Frank Fitzsimmons stayed out of the way and didn't try to dictate terms the way Hoffa did. Chicago, through their control of the Teamsters, played a role in getting Nixon elected, just as they did JFK 8 years earlier. It started in New York, and at present day it's about New York, particularly Bellomo and the Genovese, but in the 60s and 70s it was all Chicago and the Gambinos.

-
And counting “associates”? Lol...... thousands upon thousands.... of Italian Associates (that’s NOT counting other ethnicities).... which are literally uncountable!

Why not? Money is money, power is power and leverage is leverage. Quality over quantity. Chicago were masters at corruption and insulating their bosses, Accardo through most of these years. Even the Genovese took a page out of Chicago's book with the street boss idea.

[eboli]

Not really. Genovese have always been a powerhouse and a resilient one at that. During the 60s and 70s they were up there. A big reason why The Outfit were masters of corruption is because they took advantage of a corrupt machine that predates them.

[maxiestern11]

Not really. Genovese have always been a powerhouse and a resilient one at that. During the 60s and 70s they were up there. A big reason why The Outfit were masters of corruption is because they took advantage of a corrupt machine that predates them.

And I’d venture to say that NO crew, Chicago, New York or any other place lived in a vacuum, all cooperated and “accommodated” each other. And some of your points I’d agree with; Hollywood for example, Teamsters, etc. but even that strength worked in “accommodation” to NYC.
-
For instance a Jackie Presser, although coming out of where? Cleveland I think, or Fitzsimmons, or even Hoffa originally out of Detroit actually..... those families who “controlled” those candidates, went to NYC - before the “commission” to receive permission to push and support those men for higher office! Otherwise, they wouldn’t get Commission (or national) backing.
-
And although those particular “families” may have been the “gatekeepers” so to speak of those Teamster officials, it was with National Commission approval (in NYC) under whose “auspices” they operated.... with the proper “tribute” or “accommodations” to the New York City (and other) families.
-
Otherwise, it would NOT be allowed! (Why do u think Tony Provenzano was intricately implicated in Hoffa’s disappearance)? ..... because not Detroit, Chicago or any other family operated in a vacuum or autonomously!
-
NYC dominated the country! 1930, 1940, 1950, [1960, 1970], 1980....... each decade with the exception MAYBE of the last 1-2 decades because things are all screwed up across the whole country from LE pressure!
-
[and we know this from surveillance and informer testimony from the likes of Lonardo in Cleveland who said he visited NY and Fat Tony in Harlem (Genovese) for approval on Teamsters selections - and Tony talked and discussed other “options” with chicago..... Why? Because the NYC families - The Commission - controlled such selection] and even if NYC acquiesced to Chicago’s choice for a candidate, it was only because their explanation to NYC was a more intelligent choice so Fat Tony and company agreed.

[chin_gigante]

Having looked at an in depth analysis of the Giancana's impact on Kennedy's election, the impact is quite negligible. There's no real evidence that Outfit territories or controlled unions voted any more heavily for the Democrats in 1960 than they usually would

[sdeitche]

The Outfit, per se, didn't have interests but individual members like Anthony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, Joseph Aiuppa, Jackie Cerone, Angelo LaPietra, etc.

What is this supposed to mean?

Once again, as Capeci explained, each of the families didn't get together (like a board of directors) and make a collective decision to get involved in a casino. Rather, individual mobsters chose to invest or not as the opportunity arose. Joe Prafaci or Jack Dragna, for example, never had any casino investments.

I can tell you when it came to Havana, Trafficante didn't ask anyone's permission to invest.

[Wiseguy]

Chicago did in the 60s and 70s, except maybe the Gambinos.

Chicago's scope of corruption in that time was virtually unmatched.

Still waiting for you to back any of this up. You must be unaware how much corruption there was in New Jersey. And political clout is only one of several factors.

I can tell you when it came to Havana, Trafficante didn't ask anyone's permission to invest.

Agreed. He had more involvement than anyone.

[Lupara]

The Outfit, per se, didn't have interests but individual members like Anthony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, Joseph Aiuppa, Jackie Cerone, Angelo LaPietra, etc.

What is this supposed to mean?

Once again, as Capeci explained, each of the families didn't get together (like a board of directors) and make a collective decision to get involved in a casino. Rather, individual mobsters chose to invest or not as the opportunity arose. Joe Prafaci or Jack Dragna, for example, never had any casino investments.

I can tell you when it came to Havana, Trafficante didn't ask anyone's permission to invest.

Wasn't it considered his territory? Did Lansky et al needed to formally ask for his persmission to operate there?

[Ozgoz]

The Outfit, per se, didn't have interests but individual members like Anthony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, Joseph Aiuppa, Jackie Cerone, Angelo LaPietra, etc.

What is this supposed to mean?

Once again, as Capeci explained, each of the families didn't get together (like a board of directors) and make a collective decision to get involved in a casino. Rather, individual mobsters chose to invest or not as the opportunity arose. Joe Prafaci or Jack Dragna, for example, never had any casino investments.

I really admire your patience in these threads. This one must’ve been particularly testing

[Wiseguy]

I really admire your patience in these threads. This one must’ve been particularly testing

I've had a lot of practice.