I don't think the Bonanno council functioned like the other ones we see in Detroit and Tampa and so on. The Bonanno council appears to have been an administrative body of captains who are under the boss, it's less about checks and balances and more about management.B. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:45 pm Speaking of the Bonanno movie, it makes reference to "the council" handling the sitdown with Mimi Sabella. Can't assume every little reference refers to something real (plenty of questionable stuff in the movie), but does make you wonder if the Bonannos had a formal consiglio that included some of these early leaders.
The later ruling panels don't seem to have been a consiglio as we understand it, but because the formal consiglio was brought over from the Sicilian mafia they may have had one in earlier years and this could have informed the decision to keep using ruling panels.
Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
The Consiglio --> Panel/ Committee thing could be similar to going from the Grand Consiglio to the Commission. Not a direct descendant but perhaps a spiritual successor or a source of inspiration. Is there any evidence of these councils being set up for periods of time, disbanded, then formed again later like we see with panels?
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Didn't catch it before, but he says it was a "panel of the heads of the Castellammarese families of Buffalo, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, and New York". So it doesn't seem like he was depicting an internal council/panel, but rather representatives from other cities sitting on a panel to discuss JB making a finger gun to Mimi Sabella.B. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:45 pm Speaking of the Bonanno movie, it makes reference to "the council" handling the sitdown with Mimi Sabella. Can't assume every little reference refers to something real (plenty of questionable stuff in the movie), but does make you wonder if the Bonannos had a formal consiglio that included some of these early leaders.
The later ruling panels don't seem to have been a consiglio as we understand it, but because the formal consiglio was brought over from the Sicilian mafia they may have had one in earlier years and this could have informed the decision to keep using ruling panels.
That's defintiely what it seems like. I wonder if the consistent use of panels to help manage the family stems from Bonanno's absence from New York.Chris Christie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:37 pm I don't think the Bonanno council functioned like the other ones we see in Detroit and Tampa and so on. The Bonanno council appears to have been an administrative body of captains who are under the boss, it's less about checks and balances and more about management.
Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Good comparison.chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:06 pm The Consiglio --> Panel/ Committee thing could be similar to going from the Grand Consiglio to the Commission. Not a direct descendant but perhaps a spiritual successor or a source of inspiration. Is there any evidence of these councils being set up for periods of time, disbanded, then formed again later like we see with panels?
I haven't seen anything about a consiglio being temporarily disbanded, only fading away through attrition or when the leadership no longer wanted to use one (i.e. Balistrieri). The impression is they were an integral part of the Families that had them until they stopped using them.
Have yet to see any references to a panel / consiglio in the pre-1931 New York Families, only the multi-Family consiglio we've talked about. We do have a couple of references to the DeCavalcantes having their own council in addition to sitting on the joint consiglio, so it may have been possible in NYC / NJ to have both a Family consiglio and participate in the multi-Family one, we just don't have examples of it in NYC.
The Bonanno panels seem more practical / intuitive than a conscious continuation of a consiglio, but it's still an open question to me whether the NYC Families originally used that system. The ruling panels of later decades are def a "spiritual successor" in many ways, epecially with them sometimes voting on murders and handling administrative matters as a group.
If it existed in NYC Families pre-1931 it might help explain the different roles some of these early figures had outside of the "big three" admin ranks.
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The same could be said for Schiro who traveled extensively, but then that doesn't explain Massino's use of it which could be argued he used it as another layer of insulation. Even so, I still believe the Bonannos have demonstrated a century-long utilization of an administrative panel.thekiduknow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:03 pmDidn't catch it before, but he says it was a "panel of the heads of the Castellammarese families of Buffalo, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, and New York". So it doesn't seem like he was depicting an internal council/panel, but rather representatives from other cities sitting on a panel to discuss JB making a finger gun to Mimi Sabella.B. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:45 pm Speaking of the Bonanno movie, it makes reference to "the council" handling the sitdown with Mimi Sabella. Can't assume every little reference refers to something real (plenty of questionable stuff in the movie), but does make you wonder if the Bonannos had a formal consiglio that included some of these early leaders.
The later ruling panels don't seem to have been a consiglio as we understand it, but because the formal consiglio was brought over from the Sicilian mafia they may have had one in earlier years and this could have informed the decision to keep using ruling panels.
That's defintiely what it seems like. I wonder if the consistent use of panels to help manage the family stems from Bonanno's absence from New York.Chris Christie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:37 pm I don't think the Bonanno council functioned like the other ones we see in Detroit and Tampa and so on. The Bonanno council appears to have been an administrative body of captains who are under the boss, it's less about checks and balances and more about management.
As far as the film goes, I can't see why anyone outside of NY and Philly would care about a sitdown involving a soldier and then-associate.
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
There's two other important factors to consider when it comes to Massino's use of panels in the 1990s and 2000s. He inherited a panel when he was elected Boss in 1991 because Spero and Vitale were already empanelled to run the Family on the street, but it seems this committee was disbanded when Massino came home and promoted Vitale to Underboss.
However, the next time a panel appears it is specifically to assist Vitale in servicing the Captains after Spero was indicted in 1994. So in effect the panel was installed as a replacement for an active Consigliere (which explains how panel members were frequently misidentified as holding the Acting Consigliere position: Tartaglione, Graziano, Urso - though he was actually given the position later in 2003).
It's also important to note that the panel also served as a tool Massino could use to sideline Vitale and limit his authority and contact with the Captains without officially putting him on the shelf. So by the end of Massino's time on the street, the panel was serving as a replacement for both Underboss and Consigliere positions (with Captain and panel member Cantarella being misidentified as the Acting Underboss).
We also see this in the 1980s when Massino went on the lam. He left Gabriel Infanti in a position of leadership over the Family as a Captain and panel member, but (most likely because he was filling in for Massino's absence), he was also misidentified at the time as the Acting Underboss.
However, the next time a panel appears it is specifically to assist Vitale in servicing the Captains after Spero was indicted in 1994. So in effect the panel was installed as a replacement for an active Consigliere (which explains how panel members were frequently misidentified as holding the Acting Consigliere position: Tartaglione, Graziano, Urso - though he was actually given the position later in 2003).
It's also important to note that the panel also served as a tool Massino could use to sideline Vitale and limit his authority and contact with the Captains without officially putting him on the shelf. So by the end of Massino's time on the street, the panel was serving as a replacement for both Underboss and Consigliere positions (with Captain and panel member Cantarella being misidentified as the Acting Underboss).
We also see this in the 1980s when Massino went on the lam. He left Gabriel Infanti in a position of leadership over the Family as a Captain and panel member, but (most likely because he was filling in for Massino's absence), he was also misidentified at the time as the Acting Underboss.
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Good point about Schiro, and I agree about Massino. What started as a practical way to manage a borgata with an absent boss, could definitely be used to insulate one who is still on the street.Chris Christie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:11 am
The same could be said for Schiro who traveled extensively, but then that doesn't explain Massino's use of it which could be argued he used it as another layer of insulation. Even so, I still believe the Bonannos have demonstrated a century-long utilization of an administrative panel.
As far as the film goes, I can't see why anyone outside of NY and Philly would care about a sitdown involving a soldier and then-associate.
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:28 am There's two other important factors to consider when it comes to Massino's use of panels in the 1990s and 2000s. He inherited a panel when he was elected Boss in 1991 because Spero and Vitale were already empanelled to run the Family on the street, but it seems this committee was disbanded when Massino came home and promoted Vitale to Underboss.
However, the next time a panel appears it is specifically to assist Vitale in servicing the Captains after Spero was indicted in 1994. So in effect the panel was installed as a replacement for an active Consigliere (which explains how panel members were frequently misidentified as holding the Acting Consigliere position: Tartaglione, Graziano, Urso - though he was actually given the position later in 2003).
It's also important to note that the panel also served as a tool Massino could use to sideline Vitale and limit his authority and contact with the Captains without officially putting him on the shelf. So by the end of Massino's time on the street, the panel was serving as a replacement for both Underboss and Consigliere positions (with Captain and panel member Cantarella being misidentified as the Acting Underboss).
We also see this in the 1980s when Massino went on the lam. He left Gabriel Infanti in a position of leadership over the Family as a Captain and panel member, but (most likely because he was filling in for Massino's absence), he was also misidentified at the time as the Acting Underboss.
Good points as well Chin. Looking at your post on the first page, the panels post Galante seem to be around 2-4 members. I’m pretty sure Rastelli/Galante had similar sized panels in the 1970s.
Contrast that to the 1960s. After Bonanno was removed, there was a committee of up to nine members, which also seems to have been further broke into smaller committees based on who supported who. Then with DiGregorio, there was a six man council helping him run the family in the last half or so of his reign as boss.
The nine man is a big outlier, but the six man council is interesting as it’s even numbered.
Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
I think those big mid-1960s committees were designed to give as many powerful members representation as possible to ensure peace, not so much to serve a true administrative role. It also allowed demoted captains to continue in a leadership capacity, as I believe there's a discussion on the DeCavalcante tapes about how Notaro is no longer officially a captain but still serving in a defacto capacity. Like a consiglio, though, I recall they appointed Nick Alfano something of a segretario over the committee. It was a reaction to circumstance though, not something they planned to keep using.
A big difference between the Family councils / consiglio and the later ruling panels is the consiglio was designed to balance power and could be equal or greater in power than the rappresentante himself. We know the consiglio had the right to go to the Commission and request a boss be taken down and were in a position to disagree with the boss without facing immediate consequence. Though a consiglio participated in administrative duties, it was not a group of "acting bosses" or "street bosses" -- that role was traditionally reserved for the consigliere or underboss.
A ruling panel, like you guys pointed out above, is designed to serve and represent the boss. Unlike the consiglio, they are essentially a group of acting / street bosses. While a ruling panel can have a great deal of autonomy, they operate at the boss's discretion and represent him.
The Bonanno ruling panels (even the rumored 1950s one with Galante, Zicarelli, and LaBruzzo) all served the boss's interests and operated like "street bosses" rather than a traditional council. There are obvious similarities and if the Bonannos did have a consiglio earlier in their history maybe there's some connection but on the surface the Bonanno ruling panels seem to be a reaction to circumstances rather than a formal/traditional body.
It brings to mind the discussions over Chicago's use of a "board" / council, but in Chicago it's evident this was not a ruling panel where the council members acted as street bosses, but rather more like the consiglio in that senior members set policy and handled administrative matters separate from the top-down hierarchy. I'd be more comfortable calling Chicago's "board" a consiglio than I would the Bonanno's panels.
A big difference between the Family councils / consiglio and the later ruling panels is the consiglio was designed to balance power and could be equal or greater in power than the rappresentante himself. We know the consiglio had the right to go to the Commission and request a boss be taken down and were in a position to disagree with the boss without facing immediate consequence. Though a consiglio participated in administrative duties, it was not a group of "acting bosses" or "street bosses" -- that role was traditionally reserved for the consigliere or underboss.
A ruling panel, like you guys pointed out above, is designed to serve and represent the boss. Unlike the consiglio, they are essentially a group of acting / street bosses. While a ruling panel can have a great deal of autonomy, they operate at the boss's discretion and represent him.
The Bonanno ruling panels (even the rumored 1950s one with Galante, Zicarelli, and LaBruzzo) all served the boss's interests and operated like "street bosses" rather than a traditional council. There are obvious similarities and if the Bonannos did have a consiglio earlier in their history maybe there's some connection but on the surface the Bonanno ruling panels seem to be a reaction to circumstances rather than a formal/traditional body.
It brings to mind the discussions over Chicago's use of a "board" / council, but in Chicago it's evident this was not a ruling panel where the council members acted as street bosses, but rather more like the consiglio in that senior members set policy and handled administrative matters separate from the top-down hierarchy. I'd be more comfortable calling Chicago's "board" a consiglio than I would the Bonanno's panels.
That scene is a good example of why we can't assume the movie is factual about every obscure detail. It also contrasts with his book, where he IDs Magaddino and S.Sabella attending (which makes sense given their relatives were involved) but says nothing about Aiello from Chicago. Absurd to imagine Joe Aiello traveling to Brooklyn to weigh in on a dispute between a Bonanno associate and a random made member.Chris Christie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:11 am As far as the film goes, I can't see why anyone outside of NY and Philly would care about a sitdown involving a soldier and then-associate.
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
It's interesting that Stefano Cannone held this power to some extent as Consigliere. He asked the Commission to take Salvatore Catalano down as Acting Boss in 1981 and they obliged him. Then they called the Captains in to elect a replacement and Salvatore Ferrugia was voted in.
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Yep, that makes sense as the consiglio's duties were virtually identical to the official consigliere itself, just distributed among more people. The traditional consigliere as we know was not subordinate to the boss but elected separately to represent the membership. The consiglio similarly was designed to represent the Family, not the boss.
Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Speaking of consigliere, I've mentioned how Stefano Magaddino said Buffalo didn't have a consigliere because he felt if a boss is unanimously elected they shouldn't have another elected official who would split the leadership. He says this is how he "learned it", indicating someone taught him that. In the same conversation he talks about being groomed by Schiro early on, so we could speculate the Bonanno Family under Schiro did not have a consigliere and Magaddino "learned it" from him.
This could also play into Joe Bonanno murdering at least two consiglieri (whether they formerly held the position or not). Both Greg Scarpa and Michael DiLeonardo commented how the murder of a consigliere is rare yet JB killed two of them. Perhaps the role was relatively new in the Bonanno Family, and like his cousin Stefano, Bonanno was threatened by having an elected rival in the admin. Bill Bonanno talks about how the consigliere was so powerful he could effectively turn the membership against the boss if he wanted, but Bill doesn't give any examples -- worth considering this factored into the Italiano / Rappa murders.
This could also play into Joe Bonanno murdering at least two consiglieri (whether they formerly held the position or not). Both Greg Scarpa and Michael DiLeonardo commented how the murder of a consigliere is rare yet JB killed two of them. Perhaps the role was relatively new in the Bonanno Family, and like his cousin Stefano, Bonanno was threatened by having an elected rival in the admin. Bill Bonanno talks about how the consigliere was so powerful he could effectively turn the membership against the boss if he wanted, but Bill doesn't give any examples -- worth considering this factored into the Italiano / Rappa murders.
Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
I've never been able to identify a consigliere for the CDG family. I've seen rankings for capo, sotocapo, capodecina, and soldato, but never advisor. Doesn't mean they never had one, but I wonder if that's how they roll and that's what Magaddino is talking about.B. wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:28 pm Speaking of consigliere, I've mentioned how Stefano Magaddino said Buffalo didn't have a consigliere because he felt if a boss is unanimously elected they shouldn't have another elected official who would split the leadership. He says this is how he "learned it", indicating someone taught him that. In the same conversation he talks about being groomed by Schiro early on, so we could speculate the Bonanno Family under Schiro did not have a consigliere and Magaddino "learned it" from him.
This could also play into Joe Bonanno murdering at least two consiglieri (whether they formerly held the position or not). Both Greg Scarpa and Michael DiLeonardo commented how the murder of a consigliere is rare yet JB killed two of them. Perhaps the role was relatively new in the Bonanno Family, and like his cousin Stefano, Bonanno was threatened by having an elected rival in the admin. Bill Bonanno talks about how the consigliere was so powerful he could effectively turn the membership against the boss if he wanted, but Bill doesn't give any examples -- worth considering this factored into the Italiano / Rappa murders.
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Some updates I found recently:Antiliar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:59 pm 1973-1991:
Boss: Philip Rastelli (Acting, Aug 1973-Feb 1974; Boss, Feb 1974-Jun 21, 1991; in prison Aug 1976-Apr 1983, Aug 1984-Jun 4, 1991)
-Acting Boss: Carmine Galante (c1975-Jul 1979, killed; one report says Galante became boss after Rastelli's stepson was killed in March 1974, other sources say he became boss when Rastelli went to prison in 1976; Galante was in prison for a parole violation Mar 1978-Feb 1979)
[Ruling Panel: Nicholas Marangello, Mickey Zaffarano, Stefano “Stevie Beefs” Cannone (1977)]
-Acting Boss: Salvatore “Sally Fruits” Farrugia (1979-1983)
-Acting Boss: Anthony Spero (1987-1993)
Underboss: Nicholas Marangello (1973-1979)
Underboss: Joseph Massino (1981-1991)
-Acting Underboss: Louis “Louie Ha Ha” Attanasio (1984-1991)
Consigliere: Joseph Buccellato (1973-1976)
Consigliere: Stefano Cannone (1976-1984)
Consigliere: Anthony Spero (1984-2001)
Frank Lino testified that the contract for Tony Coglitore, in retaliation for the car bombing of Frank Coppa, was given by a committee, which consisted of Michael Zaffarano, Frank Lupo and Sonny Red. This was in December 1978.
A source advised in May 1978, that around the 18th or the 19th, Phil Giaccone started telling people that he was the now the acting boss while Galante was in jail, having previously been on a triumvirate running the family. In August, it was reported that he was the "number one man" in the Bonanno family, and would represent them at Commission meetings.
Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
Good stuff. Thanks for the additional information. Any idea who else was on the committee that Phil Giaccone was on? And any idea why his status changed from acting boss in at least May-August 1978 to out of leadership in December?
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Re: Bonanno Family Lineage Chart
On their Summer 1979 chart, CC and JD have Giaccone on a "Committee of Capidecine" with Frank Lupo and Michael Zaffarano. So, could be that Lino confused Giaccone and Sonny Red, or they swapped out sometime between December and Summer.
As to who else was serving with Giaccone prior to him apparently becoming acting boss, the file specifically stated it was a triumvirate, so could be Marangello and Cannone, like Zaffarano did, or other captains. Not sure, but I'll keep an eye out. I'm getting more interested in 1970s Bonannos.
As to who else was serving with Giaccone prior to him apparently becoming acting boss, the file specifically stated it was a triumvirate, so could be Marangello and Cannone, like Zaffarano did, or other captains. Not sure, but I'll keep an eye out. I'm getting more interested in 1970s Bonannos.