In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Go download the Bufalino FBI file I just posted in the FBI files section and then ask yourself if Bufalino had anything to do with Gallo getting killed, and if Sheeran killed Hoffa or not. It’s a little over 1100 pages but about 300 are devoted to the FBI having the opinion that Bufalino was involved in not only those two murders but Anastasia’s as well. Those arent my words, those are the words of multiple G men from the 50s thru 1994 when Bufalino passed.

Plus, what's up with Sheeran's daughters disowning him? Has it been proven that that's happened or is it just from Sheeran's claims? Have any of the daughters been interviewed themselves? If they disowned him when Jimmy Hoffa disappeared, they must have known he had something to do with it. I mean it's one thing to just to suspect your dad might have done something bad but just to suddenly be like that's it, I'm never speaking to him again?

[bert]

Go download the Bufalino FBI file I just posted in the FBI files section and then ask yourself if Bufalino had anything to do with Gallo getting killed, and if Sheeran killed Hoffa or not. It’s a little over 1100 pages but about 300 are devoted to the FBI having the opinion that Bufalino was involved in not only those two murders but Anastasia’s as well. Those arent my words, those are the words of multiple G men from the 50s thru 1994 when Bufalino passed.

If we read enough files we'll see all sorts of reports of different people being bosses, or involved in killings. I'm sure there are reports of Carmine DiDiase doing it (Most likely true) Carlo Gambino being behind it (Untrue but he would have killed him too if his guys had the chance) and many other informant info that is put into files. Same for any other big killing.

[SonnyBlackstein]

There were issues sure. Age the most significant. Historical inaccuracies etc.

But all in all a pretty bloody good movie IMO.
Pleasantly surprised.

[aleksandrored]

I liked the movie, although I don't believe everything Sheeran said he did, I don't think he has anything to do with Gallo's death, but I think maybe it has something to do with Hoffa's death, I'm not saying that he pulled the trigger, but maybe he knew what really happened and just wanted to enlarge the story by putting himself in the lead, Sheeran may not have been all he said, but a lot seems to be true.

Overall, the movie is great, despite having three and a half hours, time goes by flying, everything was amazing, and the ending was very different, showing the consequences that Sheeran had in a more dramatic and realistic way, want to see this movie one more time soon.

[maxiestern11]

I agree alek. The movie was good. I was entertained....historically it was def NOT correct on several issues, Gallo’s murder being the largest inaccuracy for me. Sheeran had “zero” to do with Gallo.
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Hoffa, I agrees again. I think he may have had some previous knowledge... maybe! But again, I don’t see top guys having him pull the trigger.
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But Frank Sheeran was a central player to a lot. And was close to Russ Bufalino so that’s mostly true.

[Ivan]

Finally saw it, liked it a lot. Don't expect it to be a sequel to Goodfellas and Casino and you shouldn't be disappointed. Some thoughts:

-I can't imagine truly enjoying this thing unless you already know who all these people are.
-They changed the names of the Andretta brothers, probably because Tommy was still alive when they made the movie.
-I marked out big time for the (admittedly rather pointless) two-second Frank Sindone cameo.
-Jerry Vale plays himself like he did in Casino. They didn't de-age him like they did with the other actors.
-The CG de-aging looks much more convincing than the feeble attempts to make Joe Pesci look younger in Goodfellas IMHO.

[Rocco]

I have always had trouble putting much stock in Moldea, especially since he published his RFK book and tossed in that "confession" at the end and his Thane Caesar gatekeeping became public. Anyone who hangs with Gus Russo and lectures people about publishing the truth, even Bob DeNiro, is suspect in my book too.

All that said, Moscato's version is not impossible but I am deeply skeptical that Detroit would allow Tony Pro's crew to come in and do that high-profile of a hit and then ship the body back east. Or that Tony Pro would send his guys to Detroit to kill a high profile guy like Hoffa. Wasn't Hoffa "on record" with Detroit? It makes more sense given the politics of Cosa Nostra that Detroit got the contract because Hoffa was "with" Detroit and Tony Jack. They did the deed and burned him up or buried him as has always been suspected. I won't rule out that they got Big Frank Sheeranthough Russell Bufalino or somebody else to put Hoffa at ease but I'd bet they were the shooters and they disposed of him.

The hit was really a Teamsters issue. And I would say that Tony Pro held more sway in the Teamsters then Tony Jack did. Also Tony Pro was a made guy in the Genovese Family which would hold sway over Detroit I would imagine. I do not believe that Frank Sheeran hit Joey Gallo, Hoffa or Sally Bugs. Joey Gallo was hit by members of the Colombo family and I believe that Both Hoffa and Sallys Bugs were hit by the Genovese family. Sheeron is another Ice Man bullshit artist

[TwoPiece]

-Jerry Vale plays himself like he did in Casino. They didn't de-age him like they did with the other actors.

not sure which flick you were watching but jerry vale was played by steven van zandt aka sil from the sopranos

that lip sync was rough tbh, especially considering the budget

[dack2001]

I respect your opinion Rocco. I just finished the book "in Hoffa's Shadow". After reading the book, I believe that Chuckie O'Brian had nothing to do with Hoffa getting picked up. Vito Giacalone probably picked up Hoffa. After reading that book I believe that Hoffa would get in a car with Tony Or Vito Jack on that particular day. I also believe that Dan Moldea is one lousy researcher and an unreliable author who cares only for Dan Moldea.

Doesn't mean the Genovese didn't do the hit, but I'd bet that it was Detroit internally who got the order or made the decision to get rid of Hoffa and they handled it themselves. A bunch of Genovese hit men running around Detroit would have raised some major red flags, no?

[dack2001]

Yeah, that kind of laughable. I would have had little Stevie sing it himself. He could have come decently close.

[Ivan]

-Jerry Vale plays himself like he did in Casino. They didn't de-age him like they did with the other actors.

not sure which flick you were watching but jerry vale was played by steven van zandt aka sil from the sopranos

Ah OK. I saw it on a not very big TV. Thought it was really him LOL.

[Snakes]

-Jerry Vale plays himself like he did in Casino. They didn't de-age him like they did with the other actors.

not sure which flick you were watching but jerry vale was played by steven van zandt aka sil from the sopranos

Ah OK. I saw it on a not very big TV. Thought it was really him LOL.

C'mon Ivan, get you one of those big screen TVs from Amazon with a Cyber Monday deal!

[nash143]

Still not quite sure what I thought of it. Need to give it a second viewing. Like Two Piece, liked that they used the actual old 'Palma Boys' building (external, not sure of internal?) for the Tony Salerno scenes.

I know it's already been said, but the 'Deniro giving the grocer a beating' scene was painful to watch.

[baldo]

Nobody could understand the Colombo shooting, including the bosses at that time, like Buffalino. That's the point. Their amazement and as much that is known about the background of the shooting is explained by Sheeran's voice over in the ensuing scenes as "Sleepwalk" by Santo and Johnny plays. What's interesting is that Joe Colombo's name is never mentioned in these scenes. The shooting in the movie is a device to set up the Gallo hit, along with his disrespect of Buffalino over Buffalino wearing the Italian Civil Rights pen at his birthday party hosted by Don Rickles.

To clarify, after Pro and Hoffa had a fight in jail, Frank narrates:

Right then, you knew
it was all gonna fall apart.
I can't believe
that crazy bastard
thought he could do that
right there at Columbus Circle

To the average viewer not as well versed as us might have taken it as Colombo being shot because of the jailhouse fight between Pro and Hoffa. That's why I had to explain to my wife 10 times that it was either Carlo Gambino or Joey Gallo who killed him until she finally said "wtf does that have to do with the prison fight" and I was like "oh, nothing"....LOL

[Snakes]

My dad remembered Joe Colombo getting shot and recognized that for what it was but he lived in Jersey at the time of that hit. However, I'm pretty sure my brother had no idea who that was or what the circumstances behind the hit were.