Colombo’s DeLeo Dissed Patriarca’s DiNunzio Bros. In Prison

[johnny_scootch]

If the Boston Mafia does exist, the crazy thing to me is that DeLeo not only cooperated with the feds in that murder-for-hire case, he also provided information about the Boston Mafia. So if the Boston Mafia does still exist, in whatever form, that ought to be a real kick in the balls.

DeLeo does a bunch of time with Allie Persico and eventually gets made now I’d assume they didn’t do a thorough background check and they made him without realizing he had cooperated in some form or another BUT later after his stint as acting boss while he’s in prison and it had become known he is shunned by the other Italian inmates. Vito Guzzo gets word out to Sally Bread asking if DeLeo is in good standing with the Colombo family and word comes back that he is and that he can straighten Vito out in prison which will help make that fact known. That part is the kicker! We can’t assume they made a mistake again because it was known we knew it they knew it and they didn’t care for some reason. Hopefully one day we will find out what that reason was.

[gohnjotti]

If the Boston Mafia does exist, the crazy thing to me is that DeLeo not only cooperated with the feds in that murder-for-hire case, he also provided information about the Boston Mafia. So if the Boston Mafia does still exist, in whatever form, that ought to be a real kick in the balls.

DeLeo does a bunch of time with Allie Persico and eventually gets made now I’d assume they didn’t do a thorough background check and they made him without realizing he had cooperated in some form or another BUT later after his stint as acting boss while he’s in prison and it had become known he is shunned by the other Italian inmates. Vito Guzzo gets word out to Sally Bread asking if DeLeo is in good standing with the Colombo family and word comes back that he is and that he can straighten Vito out in prison which will help make that fact known. That part is the kicker! We can’t assume they made a mistake again because it was known we knew it they knew it and they didn’t care for some reason. Hopefully one day we will find out what that reason was.

DeLeo was arrested before the information about his earlier cooperation came to light (credit to Jerry Capeci for unearthing that). So it's unlikely DeLeo was ever called to a sit-down to iron things out. So how did the Colombo family respond to this? Well, if such information made its way to DeLeo's successor, Andy Russo, then I can imagine Andy - being the ever-loyal lackey of Carmine Persico that he was - perhaps opted to let Allie Boy Persico deal with it. Because Allie Persico was the sole sponsor of DeLeo, the sole decision-maker in charge of placing DeLeo into acting boss. And from what Elizabeth Geddes told the court in 2011, Russo was the "street boss" of the Colombos but the third man down the ladder in terms of administration. Carmine Persico was boss, Allie Boy was acting boss, and Andy was street boss.

So I would assume that it was up to Allie Boy - the same man who brought DeLeo into the family - to rule on the allegations that he was once an informant. We know that Allie Boy was still intimately involved in decision-making through prison meetings with his brother-in-law Angelo Spata. And we can only assume that Allie Boy said "let it slide: DeLeo's no rat, he served a long federal sentence with me and was always a stand-up guy." And that's that. Important to note that DeLeo didn't cooperate after his 2009 arrest; the relief from that fact may have absolved any earlier allegations of cooperation.

[johnny_scootch]

DeLeo was arrested before the information about his earlier cooperation came to light (credit to Jerry Capeci for unearthing that). So it's unlikely DeLeo was ever called to a sit-down to iron things out. So how did the Colombo family respond to this? Well, if such information made its way to DeLeo's successor, Andy Russo, then I can imagine Andy - being the ever-loyal lackey of Carmine Persico that he was - perhaps opted to let Allie Boy Persico deal with it. Because Allie Persico was the sole sponsor of DeLeo, the sole decision-maker in charge of placing DeLeo into acting boss. And from what Elizabeth Geddes told the court in 2011, Russo was the "street boss" of the Colombos but the third man down the ladder in terms of administration. Carmine Persico was boss, Allie Boy was acting boss, and Andy was street boss.

So I would assume that it was up to Allie Boy - the same man who brought DeLeo into the family - to rule on the allegations that he was once an informant. We know that Allie Boy was still intimately involved in decision-making through prison meetings with his brother-in-law Angelo Spata. And we can only assume that Allie Boy said "let it slide: DeLeo's no rat, he served a long federal sentence with me and was always a stand-up guy." And that's that. Important to note that DeLeo didn't cooperate after his 2009 arrest; the relief from that fact may have absolved any earlier allegations of cooperation.

Excellent points and that very well could be what happened. It probably helps he’s very old and lives way out in Massachusetts because there are definitely guys in the life who believe once a rat always a rat and wouldn’t deal with him in any way shape or form regardless of what the Persicos think so it’s good he’s out of sight out of mind.

[Tonyd621]

It's not the first time the Persicos supposedly knew they had a rat in their midst.

[Tonyd621]

Point being maybe the knew Scarpa was a rat too. But didn't care either as long as they have someone loyal to Persico.

[B.]

Scarpa was a suspected informant for many years but his murderous reputation may have saved him. At one point Joe Tomasello told him people were gossiping about him being a rat so he recommended Scarpa kill someone to prove them wrong.

Carmine Lombardozzi is an interesting case as he was a CI since the 1960s and I posted an FBI report from the 1970s where an informant was told by Gambino member Frank Gagliardi to stay away from Lombardozzi and his brother because they were rats. Flash forward a few years and guys like DiLeonardo and Gravano knew Lombardozzi to be a respected senior member, apparently had no idea about the rumors.

With DeLeo it isn't just that he once cooperated before he was around the Colombos -- while he was acting boss he was also recorded telling his sister about the life, talked about meetings and a ceremony in NYC, and compared it to the Sopranos. Throw in this stuff about the DiNunzios and the guy is unfit all around.

[gohnjotti]

Point being maybe the knew Scarpa was a rat too. But didn't care either as long as they have someone loyal to Persico.

I can't remember the exact allegations about the Persicos knowing that Scarpa was a rat. I believe that assertion was made in Peter Lance's excellent book, Deal with the Devil. But if I'm remembering correctly, I believe Scarpa made out like he had a high-level source in the FBI, thereby indicating that he was somewhat of a double agent, giving the feds misinformation in exchange for the valuable tips he (allegedly) received from S.A. Lin DeVecchio, such as the locations of Orena faction whereabouts and information that Mary Bari and Carmine Imbriale were informants.

The attitude with the Colombos around rats has always been weird. An example is that by the mid-2000s, Robert Pate was still openly associating with his informant brother John, who flipped in the early '90s, and there are indications they worked together in the Hawks Biometrics fraud. We know from Maragni's testimony that John Pate wasn't given a "pass" (Maragni chastised Robert for hanging out with his brother), but it might have helped that John Pate eventually pleaded insanity and never ended up testifying.

Another example is that while Reynold Maragni was wearing a wire in 2011, Gang Land reported that many Colombos suspected he was an informant because he was let out on bail despite the violent crime allegations and the detention of many of his co-defendants. Then, in cross-examination years later, it came out that Reynold Maragni gave certain people hand-written notes telling them that he was wired up, and not to say anything incriminating.

One thing that I would find particularly egregious if I were a Colombo is not so much Ralph DeLeo's earlier cooperation, but the tape-recordings he had with his sister in which he disclosed sensitive information about his meetings with the Colombo administration and compared them to the Sopranos. You read those tapes and it seems like he was trivializing this whole "thing of ours" despite inducted members having to swear an oath that they won't disclose the existence of mob to any outsiders.

[gohnjotti]

With DeLeo it isn't just that he once cooperated before he was around the Colombos -- while he was acting boss he was also recorded telling his sister about the life, talked about meetings and a ceremony in NYC, and compared it to the Sopranos. Throw in this stuff about the DiNunzios and the guy is unfit all around.

Beat me to it, B!

EDIT: I have also heard - and I hesitated to post this earlier, because I don't know if I really believe it - that Sebastiano Saracino was somewhat forgiven by his brother Dino for his cooperation. Again, I don't really believe this but it comes from a source who was associated with the Bay Parkway Boys. The source told me that, upon hearing about Sebastiano Saracino's cooperation around 2010/2011, he inquired with another mobster because, in his words, Sebastiano was never around, was never a "Bay Parkway Boy," and wouldn't have had much to offer to the FBI. The reply that my source got - allegedly from a made member of another crime family - is that Dino "took the fall" for Sebby and never blamed Sebby too much for cooperating because it was Dino who dragged him into that life and if Sebby didn't cooperate, he would've likely gone down for committing murders with Dino that he never actually did. So by testifying, Sebastiano absolved himself and asserted that Dino committed the murders.

And it almost worked out for the best, since Dino was ultimately acquitted of those same murders but was ultimately screwed, in a legal sense, by the judge taking it upon himself to give Dino fifty years for telling David Gordon to plead the Fifth Amendment, as crazy as that is.

[B.]

There was one Colombo (I thought Franzese though he may have cooperated / left the life by then) who said when it came out publicly that Scarpa was a CI, Allie Persico told him both he and his father had known for years. The member was disgusted they knew and still kept him around.

[Tonyd621]

With DeLeo it isn't just that he once cooperated before he was around the Colombos -- while he was acting boss he was also recorded telling his sister about the life, talked about meetings and a ceremony in NYC, and compared it to the Sopranos. Throw in this stuff about the DiNunzios and the guy is unfit all around.

Beat me to it, B!

EDIT: I have also heard - and I hesitated to post this earlier, because I don't know if I really believe it - that Sebastiano Saracino was somewhat forgiven by his brother Dino for his cooperation. Again, I don't really believe this but it comes from a source who was associated with the Bay Parkway Boys. The source told me that, upon hearing about Sebastiano Saracino's cooperation around 2010/2011, he inquired with another mobster because, in his words, Sebastiano was never around, was never a "Bay Parkway Boy," and wouldn't have had much to offer to the FBI. The reply that my source got - allegedly from a made member of another crime family - is that Dino "took the fall" for Sebby and never blamed Sebby too much for cooperating because it was Dino who dragged him into that life and if Sebby didn't cooperate, he would've likely gone down for committing murders with Dino that he never actually did. So by testifying, Sebastiano absolved himself and asserted that Dino committed the murders.

And it almost worked out for the best, since Dino was ultimately acquitted of those same murders but was ultimately screwed, in a legal sense, by the judge taking it upon himself to give Dino fifty years for telling David Gordon to plead the Fifth Amendment, as crazy as that is.

Thank for the masterclass. Appreciate clearing that up.

[aray22]

Im a low life ?

Scott

Scott can you address the questions surrounding the Cataldo's. Thanks.

[Tonyd621]

Im a low life ?

Scott

Scott can you address the questions surrounding the Cataldo's. Thanks.

He is too smart to answer that question. No matter what his answer it's going to be meet with ridicule either way

[aray22]

Im a low life ?

Scott

Scott can you address the questions surrounding the Cataldo's. Thanks.

He is too insecure to answer that question.

Fixed it for you.

[Joeyboy1982]

There was one Colombo (I thought Franzese though he may have cooperated / left the life by then) who said when it came out publicly that Scarpa was a CI, Allie Persico told him both he and his father had known for years. The member was disgusted they knew and still kept him around.

I believe it came from Larry Mazza. Although jury is still out if he was truly "made".

[B.]

There was one Colombo (I thought Franzese though he may have cooperated / left the life by then) who said when it came out publicly that Scarpa was a CI, Allie Persico told him both he and his father had known for years. The member was disgusted they knew and still kept him around.

I believe it came from Larry Mazza. Although jury is still out if he was truly "made".

Oh yeah, that sounds right. And agreed on his membership.