Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[BeatiPaoli]

To Everyone: Have been reading this thread and associated ones with great interest. I do have a basic question, if someone could help me. In the aforementioned Toronto Sun article of 12/28/18, it was written "His grandfather Giacomo Luppino had been head of one of the three Calabrian crime families based in Hamilton…." Could someone please tell me the heads of the other two Calabrian crime families based in Hamilton? I am assuming one was the Musitanos, but what was the name of the third Calabrian family?

My appreciation in advance for any assistance.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[antimafia]

^^^^
The reporter is referring to John Papalia and Papalia’s crime group. Using the words crime group is always a better way of expressing what these particular groups are. If we know one of them to be affiliated with a secret society, in this case the American LCN, the group should be identified as a Buffalo crew rather than a Calabrian family.

The Hamilton-born Papalia had ancestry from Delianuova, in Calabria, but by all accounts his mother—who was also from Delianuova—had Sicilian ancestry.

[NickleCity]

^^^^
The reporter is referring to John Papalia and Papalia’s crime group. Using the words crime group is always a better way of expressing what these particular groups are. If we know one of them to be affiliated with a secret society, in this case the American LCN, the group should be identified as a Buffalo crew rather than a Calabrian family.

The Hamilton-born Papalia had ancestry from Delianuova, in Calabria, but by all accounts his mother—who was also from Delianuova—had Sicilian ancestry.

In my mind what makes this hard to understand is the fact that as anti puts it “Buffalo’s crews in Canada” are still regarded or at least described by journalists as distinct crime families. For example this quote from The Globe & News:

In this new role, Mr. Violi was to “assume control over the operations of the Luppino-Violi crime family and solidify his power base with further and greater collaboration with the New York-based Mafia families.”

Anti and others I would love your thoughts on whether these groups are independent crime families and Buffalo “crews” just Buffalo crews, or is their a better way to describe them—like just a “crime group” till we know more.

Thoughts?

I’ve always thought believed them to be Buffalo Crews and separate crime families as I tried to figure this stuff out the past couple of years. I know my knowlede is limited, as I’m fairly new to these boards, so I’m interested in broadening my perspective with input from others.

[Frank]

^^^^
The reporter is referring to John Papalia and Papalia’s crime group. Using the words crime group is always a better way of expressing what these particular groups are. If we know one of them to be affiliated with a secret society, in this case the American LCN, the group should be identified as a Buffalo crew rather than a Calabrian family.

The Hamilton-born Papalia had ancestry from Delianuova, in Calabria, but by all accounts his mother—who was also from Delianuova—had Sicilian ancestry.

In my mind what makes this hard to understand is the fact that as anti puts it “Buffalo’s crews in Canada” are still regarded or at least described by journalists as distinct crime families. For example this quote from The Globe & News:

In this new role, Mr. Violi was to “assume control over the operations of the Luppino-Violi crime family and solidify his power base with further and greater collaboration with the New York-based Mafia families.”

Anti and others I would love your thoughts on whether these groups are independent crime families and Buffalo “crews” just Buffalo crews, or is their a better way to describe them—like just a “crime group” till we know more.

Thoughts?

I’ve always thought believed them to be Buffalo Crews and separate crime families as I tried to figure this stuff out the past couple of years. I know my knowlede is limited, as I’m fairly new to these boards, so I’m interested in broadening my perspective with input from others.

My opinion has been that these Canadian Calabrian crime groups might have been mislabled years ago. I think this has made this more confusing than it should be. I don't think we can paint all these groups with the same brush, as they all have their own history. Is there any proof that these groups are or where N'Drangheta members. Or where they just independent Calabrian crime groups? You can take Maggadino's description of Luppino and get different interpretations. It's kind of like saying Vito Genevese or Paul Ricca were not LCN members going by there background. My main point being that going back a few generations, what affiliation these guys ancestors where in Italy doesn't mean that it was carried on to the following generations.

[Lupara]

You have take these statements either in a certain context or just with a pine of salt.

As is clear, the Canadian LE and press have a preferance of viewing these "groups" as independent crime families. For instance, both Vic Cotroni and Paolo Violi have often been called crime boss/ underboss, even though we all know for a fact they were capo/acting capo in the Bonanno crime family. But then again, there's certain truth to it also, because as evidence indicates is that even though Montreal was a branch of the Bonannos, they were more or less acting as a family in their own right. So it is not inaccurate to describe Vic Cotroni and Nick/Vito Rizzuto as the bosses of the Montreal Mafia, no matter their official title in LCN. I'm even of the opinion that a capo can be called a crime boss, because they are the boss of their own crew.

It would makes sense that all the Hamilton crime groups were part of the Buffalo family. Both the Luppinos and Musitanis may very well have been 'ndrangheta too who were absorbed by Magaddino in a time when LCN was the only thing that mattered in the North American Mafia.

[Lupara]

^^^^
The reporter is referring to John Papalia and Papalia’s crime group. Using the words crime group is always a better way of expressing what these particular groups are. If we know one of them to be affiliated with a secret society, in this case the American LCN, the group should be identified as a Buffalo crew rather than a Calabrian family.

The Hamilton-born Papalia had ancestry from Delianuova, in Calabria, but by all accounts his mother—who was also from Delianuova—had Sicilian ancestry.

In my mind what makes this hard to understand is the fact that as anti puts it “Buffalo’s crews in Canada” are still regarded or at least described by journalists as distinct crime families. For example this quote from The Globe & News:

In this new role, Mr. Violi was to “assume control over the operations of the Luppino-Violi crime family and solidify his power base with further and greater collaboration with the New York-based Mafia families.”

Anti and others I would love your thoughts on whether these groups are independent crime families and Buffalo “crews” just Buffalo crews, or is their a better way to describe them—like just a “crime group” till we know more.

Thoughts?

I’ve always thought believed them to be Buffalo Crews and separate crime families as I tried to figure this stuff out the past couple of years. I know my knowlede is limited, as I’m fairly new to these boards, so I’m interested in broadening my perspective with input from others.

My opinion has been that these Canadian Calabrian crime groups might have been mislabled years ago. I think this has made this more confusing than it should be. I don't think we can paint all these groups with the same brush, as they all have their own history. Is there any proof that these groups are or where N'Drangheta members. Or where they just independent Calabrian crime groups? You can take Maggadino's description of Luppino and get different interpretations. It's kind of like saying Vito Genevese or Paul Ricca were not LCN members going by there background. My main point being that going back a few generations, what affiliation these guys ancestors where in Italy doesn't mean that it was carried on to the following generations.

Good point.

[Frank]

It appears that the Musitanos are probably members of the Buffalo Family, having previously been described as N'drangeta. Like I mentioned just because their Grandfather was probably N'drangeta doesn't mean their dad or or the brothers were ever officially N'drangeta members. All info points to Papalia and Luppino becoming made members of Buffalo. Maybe the Musitanos we're made back in the day. With Pat and Angelo growing up to be LCN and never part of N'drangeta. It seems like they are always involved in Buffalo Family.

[BeatiPaoli]

To Everyone: Great discussion!!! So...…...I am going to go out on a limb here, and try to "consolidate" (for want of a better term) the essential elements of the last several posts, in an amateur attempt to pigeonhole the major players as to their organizational affiliation(s): Magaddino/Buffalo Family of U.S. LCN, with possible present boss Joseph Todaro, possible present underboss Domenico Violi; in the past, 3 Buffalo crews/regimes in Hamilton, respectively Luppino (also Ndrangheta double affiliation), Musitano (also Ndrangheta double affiliation), and Papalia. Bonnano Family of U.S. LCN had a crew/regime in Montreal, originally Cotroni capo, Violi soto, then Rizzuto (still a Bonnano regime of record, with some level of independence).

Ok, gentlemen, tear me apart.

And while you are dissecting my aforementioned feeble attempt at an organizational narrative, please answer 2 questions for me, if you all would be so kind:

1. Does Domenico Violi have double affiliation with the Ndrangheta?
2. Where does the Commisso Family/ndrine of the Ndrangheta fit into all this (if at all)?

Thank you for your attention and tolerance.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[johnny_scootch]

My opinion on the Musitano's being part of the Buffalo family........unlikely.

Domenico Violi having double affiliation with the Ndrangheta......highly unlikely.

As for the Luppino's I'd say only Giacomo had the honor of double affiliation coming to Canada as an Ndranghetisti but gets made by the Buffalo family at a time when the Ndrangheta wasn't all that important. All the Luppino's since would have been 100% American Cosa Nostra along with the Violi's.

[Lupara]

To Everyone:  Great discussion!!!  So...…...I am going to go out on a limb here, and try to "consolidate" (for want of a better term) the essential elements of the last several posts, in an amateur attempt to pigeonhole the major players as to their organizational affiliation(s):  Magaddino/Buffalo Family of U.S. LCN, with possible present boss Joseph Todaro, possible present underboss Domenico Violi; in the past, 3 Buffalo crews/regimes in Hamilton, respectively Luppino  (also Ndrangheta double affiliation), Musitano (also Ndrangheta double affiliation), and Papalia. Bonnano Family of U.S. LCN had a crew/regime in Montreal, originally Cotroni capo, Violi soto, then Rizzuto (still a Bonnano regime of record, with some level of independence).  



Ok, gentlemen, tear me apart.



And while you are dissecting my aforementioned feeble attempt at an organizational narrative, please answer 2 questions for me, if you all would be so kind:



1.  Does Domenico Violi have double affiliation with the Ndrangheta?


2. Where does the Commisso Family/ndrine of the Ndrangheta fit into all this (if at all)?



Thank you for your attention and tolerance.



Regards,


BeatiPaoli

That's a pretty decent description of the last few posts. [emoji41]



In an attempt to answer your question:



1. I don't think Domenico Violi's generation holds double affiliation. I think today this is probably not allowed anymore. But in the old days the circumstances were different. His grandfather Giacomo Luppino could've held double affiliation, because he may have already been a 'ndranghetisti when he settled in Canada before joining Stefano Magaddino's family, who was the overlord of the Mafia in Ontario. May have = actually very likely as Magaddino himself was overheard saying that he was a Camorrista, which apparantly means the same. But then there's the recent evidence that states that his sons (and grandsons) were inducted into the Buffalo family.



2. I think the evidence of the Commisos being 'Ndrangheta is undisputed. They are also newer generation families that settled in Ontario after the reigns of Magaddino when the landscape was changing. Buffalo seemed to be particulary active in the Hamilton area with influence in Toronto. But Italian LE, which is probably on par if not even better informed than the FBI, has stated that there are nine 'Ndrangheta families in Toronto, of which the Commisos are one. Besides, the Commisos have their base as a clan in Italy, or used to at least, contrary to the Musitanos and Luppinos. 

[NickleCity]

I cross-posted this to the Gangster BB board:

James Dubro is quoted as saying in the article to which I’ve linked below that the underboss of the Buffalo Family would have had to approve the hit on Angelo Musitano (killed May 2017). This has knowledgeable readers like us confused because we know that Domenico Violi was heard saying on wiretaps in October/November 2017 that he had just become underboss.

UNDERWORLD GTA: Drugs, guns, murder and revenge served cold

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... rved-cold/

Just reread the article. Is it my or does the author make it sound like the Violi’s were behind the hits on Nicolo and Nick Rizzuto Jr?

”But much of the blood-letting goes back to bloodshed in Montreal.

On Jan. 22, 1978, Paolo Violi had his brains blown out after being invited to play cards at a bar he used to own.

The weapon was a lupara, a sawed-off shotgun and the traditional Sicilian weapon of choice for the settling of gangland accounts.

It may have taken years but the Violi family were not going to let sleeping dogs lie.

On Dec. 28, 2009, Nicolo Rizzuto Jr. was gunned down in Montreal, followed by his brother-in-law and consigliere, Paolo Renda, on May 20, 2010.

Renda did the Houdini and cops believe he’s dead.

And finally, the clock ticked midnight for the old man.

Nicolo Rizzuto, 85, was killed by a sniper who parked a slug in the ageing Don on Nov. 10, 2010.

And with that, the bloodletting spread to southern Ontario, ...”

Did anyone else read it like that, or am I in left field?

Also, about the Iavarone murder, the article suggests Al had ties to a couple of those who are wanted/arrested for the Musitano hit. I find that tidbit interesting. Hunter writes:

“While Iavarone didn’t have a criminal record, he had connections to two of the alleged hitters in the Musitano murder plot.”

Is that Musitano retaliation for Ang’s murder and Al was taken out because he was close to the “hitters”? This makes sense if the Musitanos aren’t under the Buffalo flag.

The O’Riley article does indicates it was revenge:

The ties between these murders are impossible to miss. It evokes an obvious question: Was Iavarone's murder revenge?

It's something we're conscious of," says Hamilton police major crime Det. Sgt. Peter Thom, the case manager for both homicide investigations. "If it is tit for tat ... then a message has been sent to the Iavarones or whoever they're involved with."

Or is something else going on here... like Al knew too much about what happened because of his closeness to the “hitters” so Luppino/Violi/Buffalo had him offed?

Doesn’t that make more sense if the Musitanos are under Buffalo? Otherwise they are making an insanctioned hit in revenge on their own family.

Probably reading too much into it, but those are the questions that crossed my mind. Thoughts?

[CabriniGreen]

In my mind what makes this hard to understand is the fact that as anti puts it “Buffalo’s crews in Canada” are still regarded or at least described by journalists as distinct crime families. For example this quote from The Globe & News:

In this new role, Mr. Violi was to “assume control over the operations of the Luppino-Violi crime family and solidify his power base with further and greater collaboration with the New York-based Mafia families.”

Anti and others I would love your thoughts on whether these groups are independent crime families and Buffalo “crews” just Buffalo crews, or is their a better way to describe them—like just a “crime group” till we know more.

Thoughts?

I’ve always thought believed them to be Buffalo Crews and separate crime families as I tried to figure this stuff out the past couple of years. I know my knowlede is limited, as I’m fairly new to these boards, so I’m interested in broadening my perspective with input from others.

I think its confusing if you compare them to the 5 families. If you compare the Italian- Canadian groups to Italian crime groups in Italy, they are very similar.

I look at the Rizzutos " Family", " Clan", " Crew", " Group" , to me, organizationally speaking, they have more in common with a family like Paolo DiLauros family.
Big on drug trafficking, family based. How he had a bunch of autonomous lieutenants who paid a franchise/ fealty fee. And when they accumulated enough financial and organizational strength, declared themselves independent.
If you look at Renauds Post Rizzuto assessment of the Montreal criminal landscape, that's what it looks like to me, 7-9 autonomous crime groups, incapable of wiping each other out completely.

Or even a clan like the Nuvoletta-Polverino- Orlando clan. Like the Nuvolettas are Cosa Nostra, but the actual POWER day to day are the Orlandos.

Another thing on the Calabrians, I dont think we have a CLUE about them really. There are 9 families. We dont know if there are 9 locales, like 1 per family. Or if they are organized like a Madamenti with multiple families in a group ( Most likely... like Piromalli-Mole or Pelle- Voltari..)

How their territory is distributed, like nothing really.
They seemed to have their own internal schism at the same time Montreal, AND apparently Hamilton were at war. So 3 wars- conflicts that may or may not be connected. One in Montreal, one in Hamilton, one in Toronto...

[CabriniGreen]

Also, if you google Musitano, almost all the results that pop up will say, ndrangheta crime family or something like that.

The consensus on this board was that Buffalo wasnt even a thing, so what other conclusions would you have drawn? Seriously..... the Buffalo structure thing JUST came out, unless you, like me, took Sergis report pretty seriously.
She was talking the Violis and Buffalo but it went mostly ignored, I was instantly intrigued....

" Crime families but not LCN",..... she very well could have meant the same thing @lupara said. Crime group, clan, ndrine, family, syndicate, fuck I dont know, lol.....What's the real difference?


I also think, again, like the Buffalo journalist, I think she met with BOTH the RCMP, AND FBI, they told her 2 COMPLETELY opposite things about Buffalo, and to show respect to both sides, she split the baby.

It's why I think she acknowledged Buffalo, but made a concession to the FBI saying they arnt recognized by LCN.

Lastly, you know I made the double affiliation thread as a CONCESSION to posters who are ADAMANT that these people are 100% Bonanno and loyal.

I read ICE, they describe the Rizzutos as the " Siculiana family" or " Agrigento Mafia". John Dicke said guys like Catalano might have been double affiliates.

The Sixth Family straight up says guys like Catalano and Sciascia were made in Sicily. Same with the Octopus book.

So if not double affiliates, then Sicilian Mafia for sure...
No? I got no problem being wrong....


Were all the authors lying or just have bad info? I give em the benefit of the doubt.....

I also give benefit to the researchers on here, I wont just dismiss em, but I can't dismiss info I've read in multiple different places.

That's where the Double affiliation theory came from.
I didnt even come up with it, I read it in multiple places.

I'm also kinda wondering if we have the structure of Montreal wrong. Was it one crew, or like 4-5 or more "Cells" ( lol, theres another one for you guys..)

[CabriniGreen]

Lastly ( for now, lol) I mean, I can understand the idea that, just because a relative, father, whatever was ndrangheta, it doesnt automatically make all the relatives ndrangheta. But keeping that same energy, I cant go with the assumption that every Italian criminal in Canada is a Bonanno, cause they planted a flag there in the late 70s.

[scagghiuni]

Lastly ( for now, lol) I mean, I can understand the idea that, just because a relative, father, whatever was ndrangheta, it doesnt automatically make all the relatives ndrangheta. But keeping that same energy, I cant go with the assumption that every Italian criminal in Canada is a Bonanno, cause they planted a flag there in the late 70s.

bonanno planted flags in canada long before the 70s