Thomas Carrube testimony notes (Cammarano trial)

[SonnyBlackstein]

He reminds me of John Pennisi in a way. Both of them just kind of fell into being made because they're Italian and knew some wiseguys.

They're not two cherubs whistling and skipping down the street.

[TallGuy19]

He reminds me of John Pennisi in a way. Both of them just kind of fell into being made because they're Italian and knew some wiseguys.

They're not two cherubs whistling and skipping down the street.

What do you mean by that?

[SonnyBlackstein]

What do you mean by that?

That these were not two civilians, who by not their choice became involved, then 'unfortunately' became made.
Both Pennisi and Carrube chose the life, and chose their lifestyle.

And chose their button.
These guys arent victims. You dont get a button as a victim.

[TallGuy19]

What do you mean by that?

That these were not two civilians, who by not their choice became involved, then 'unfortunately' became made.
Both Pennisi and Carrube chose the life, and chose their lifestyle.

And chose their button.
These guys arent victims. You dont get a button as a victim.

I wasn't implying that they're victims. I meant that neither of them really did anything to deserve their button. Pennisi hung around DiBenedetto for a few months, got introduced to Big John, and was straightened out within a year. During the time he was on record with DiBenedetto, all he really did was run a tiny sportsbook and kick up a paltry amount of money.

Then you have Carrube, a pizza man who paid $5,000 to get made so Lovaglio wouldn't hurt him.

[nizarsoccer]

What do you mean by that?

That these were not two civilians, who by not their choice became involved, then 'unfortunately' became made.
Both Pennisi and Carrube chose the life, and chose their lifestyle.

And chose their button.
These guys arent victims. You dont get a button as a victim.

I wasn't implying that they're victims. I meant that neither of them really did anything to deserve their button. Pennisi hung around DiBenedetto for a few months, got introduced to Big John, and was straightened out within a year. During the time he was on record with DiBenedetto, all he really did was run a tiny sportsbook and kick up a paltry amount of money.

Then you have Carrube, a pizza man who paid $5,000 to get made so Lovaglio wouldn't hurt him.

Well Pennisi killed someone, so you can't compare him to Carrube.

[TallGuy19]

What do you mean by that?

That these were not two civilians, who by not their choice became involved, then 'unfortunately' became made.
Both Pennisi and Carrube chose the life, and chose their lifestyle.

And chose their button.
These guys arent victims. You dont get a button as a victim.

I wasn't implying that they're victims. I meant that neither of them really did anything to deserve their button. Pennisi hung around DiBenedetto for a few months, got introduced to Big John, and was straightened out within a year. During the time he was on record with DiBenedetto, all he really did was run a tiny sportsbook and kick up a paltry amount of money.

Then you have Carrube, a pizza man who paid $5,000 to get made so Lovaglio wouldn't hurt him.

Well Pennisi killed someone, so you can't compare him to Carrube.

Yeah, but it wasn't mob related.

[TommyNoto]

Pennisi was friendly with a lot of wise guys from Gambinos, Bonnanos and Columbos which seemed to be a positive for him in the life and getting made.

[nizarsoccer]

What do you mean by that?

That these were not two civilians, who by not their choice became involved, then 'unfortunately' became made.
Both Pennisi and Carrube chose the life, and chose their lifestyle.

And chose their button.
These guys arent victims. You dont get a button as a victim.

I wasn't implying that they're victims. I meant that neither of them really did anything to deserve their button. Pennisi hung around DiBenedetto for a few months, got introduced to Big John, and was straightened out within a year. During the time he was on record with DiBenedetto, all he really did was run a tiny sportsbook and kick up a paltry amount of money.

Then you have Carrube, a pizza man who paid $5,000 to get made so Lovaglio wouldn't hurt him.

Well Pennisi killed someone, so you can't compare him to Carrube.

Yeah, but it wasn't mob related.

Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.

Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.

[TallGuy19]

Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.

Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.

Killing someone over a girl qualifies you to get made? I would say being an earner and carrying out mob-sanctioned hits without getting caught would qualify you. Pennisi killed someone for the dumbest reason imaginable and did seventeen years for it. In my book you get points for staying out of the can.

Compare him to someone like Roy DeMeo, who struggled to get made despite being a huge earner and a proficient killer with a solid crew under him. Even after he forged an alliance with the Westies, Castellano still had to be talked into it by Gaggi. It just goes to show how much things have changed.

[JohnnyS]

Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.

Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.

Killing someone over a girl qualifies you to get made? I would say being an earner and carrying out mob-sanctioned hits without getting caught would qualify you. Pennisi killed someone for the dumbest reason imaginable and did seventeen years for it. In my book you get points for staying out of the can.

Compare him to someone like Roy DeMeo, who struggled to get made despite being a huge earner and a proficient killer with a solid crew under him. Even after he forged an alliance with the Westies, Castellano still had to be talked into it by Gaggi. It just goes to show how much things have changed.

That was someone that was around in the 70s. The talent pool in LCN has shrunk a lot since then. Good luck finding a guy more 'qualified' than Pennisi who has links to LCN dating back decades, he was an associate with the Gambinos, did serious time and was childhood best friends with Vic Amuso's son in law. Pennisi was always going to get straightened out after he was released from jail. The only way he wasnt going to end up made is if he didnt want it.

[TallGuy19]

Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.

Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.

Killing someone over a girl qualifies you to get made? I would say being an earner and carrying out mob-sanctioned hits without getting caught would qualify you. Pennisi killed someone for the dumbest reason imaginable and did seventeen years for it. In my book you get points for staying out of the can.

Compare him to someone like Roy DeMeo, who struggled to get made despite being a huge earner and a proficient killer with a solid crew under him. Even after he forged an alliance with the Westies, Castellano still had to be talked into it by Gaggi. It just goes to show how much things have changed.

That was someone that was around in the 70s. The talent pool in LCN has shrunk a lot since then. Good luck finding a guy more 'qualified' than Pennisi who has links to LCN dating back decades, he was an associate with the Gambinos, did serious time and was childhood best friends with Vic Amuso's son in law. Pennisi was always going to get straightened out after he was released from jail. The only way he wasnt going to end up made is if he didnt want it.

That goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.

[SonnyBlackstein]

That goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.

Pennisi did not get made because he was Italian and knew some people.

Pennisi got made because he killed someone and did 17years.

Pennisi would've likely got made if this was the 70's too.
There are hundreds of examples of guys doing less and getting their button than Pennisi.

Pennisi had committed murder and stood up. There is
nothing more qualifying for entry into the mafia. That's it. End of story.

[AntComello]

That goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.

Pennisi did not get made because he was Italian and knew some people.

Pennisi got made because he killed someone and did 17years.

Pennisi would've likely got made if this was the 70's too.
There are hundreds of examples of guys doing less and getting their button than Pennisi.

Pennisi had committed murder and stood up. There is
nothing more qualifying for entry into the mafia. That's it. End of story.

He had no choice but to stand up. Who was he going to rat on? He killed his girls lover or whatever and I’m pretty sure he had no knowledge to drop on the feds that would have got him out of that jam. He had no choice but to sit for 17 years and he could barely do that (suicide attempt)

[johnny_scootch]

Is it fair to say Carrube was kind of a bum? Or just simply not an active guy? I think that pizza place did pretty well before the whole beef about the L&B thing. Carrube's story is very, very interesting. It's actually kind of funny.

The guy managed to keep his distance for years and was pressured into being made? He had some businesses , but as an associate he wasn't coming around or kicking up, so they made him in order to get closer to whatever money he had? I feel like that's kind of what happened here just by reading what's in front of us. Who knows. Very strange.

Carrube was an associate for decades and should have stayed like that. Lovaglio was extorting him and pushing him around so he went to Simone Esposito for help. Esposito told him the only way he could help him was to propose him for membership but it would cost him 10k, reluctantly he went along with it and paid 5.

Seems like Esposito was probably on drugs looking to get cash anyway he could and ended up on the shelf.